Mr. Adam's living room speakers

MPWall1 · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:51 am Post subject: Mr. Adam's living room speakers

Pat-

It doesn't matter how many times someone explains this to me, but what the hell did Mr. Adam do to his speakers to get them in phase with his living room? Anyone who goes for a lesson (I presume) has been introduced to their amazing sound. Now that I have a house of my own, I'd like to try something like that.

Thanks.

Michael
_________________
Michael Patrick Wall, Ed.D.
Independent Researcher in Music Education

PH · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:07 am Post subject:

You'll have to ask Mr. Adam. Those speakers were a labor of love. He did a ton of acoustics research and custom built them to fit the shape and size of his living room. I've not heard anything quite like it!

redhawktrumpet85 · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject:

Those speakers are simply amazing. I think he told me in my lesson how he got them in phase, but I'm still in the process of reviewing my lesson tape. If I stumble over what he said, I'll post it.

Matt
_________________
Matt Miller

Jonny Boy · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:54 pm Post subject:

Those speakers really do sound incredible.

Here's what Mr Adam told me.

He had been experimenting with a whole bunch of different tuners, amps etc, and still was not getting the sound he wanted.
There where a couple of guys who went to Rortary Club that he knew, Biagio Presti (sp?) and Bob Green. Biagio had invented the television tuner and Bob was an Acoustical engineer for RCA victor recordings. Biagio gave Mr Adam a design for a speaker which he then built (Mr Adam is really into wood work). He was instructed to leave the ports on the long side and to be careful when putting the horns in so they would still be able to move them around a bit. Then the next time Biagio and Bob where in town they came over to set them up. They had two Microphones and two Oscilloscopes. One mic was placed inside the speaker box and the other in the room where the speakers were to be kept. They then played this grungey record on the turntable and the patterns on the two Oscilloscopes were not the same. So they would then cut a bit of the port off and tweak around a bit. This went on for some time untill they eventually got the two graphs the same. They had got the speakers in phase with the room, but only that room!

JB

MPWall1 · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:22 am Post subject:

hmm...well, maybe I'll wait until I move (5 years) into a bigger space where I can really let the speakers wail...

anyone know a good acousitcal engineer in northern new jersey? hahaha...thanks everybody for the info.

michael
_________________
Michael Patrick Wall, Ed.D.
Independent Researcher in Music Education

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Don't you just listen.......really well?

Adjust until it sounds the way you want?

Like playing trumpet.

It's in your head, work on it until it's coming out the way you hear it in your mind........

Jonny Boy · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:58 am Post subject:

Dbacon,

Have your heard Mr Adams HiFi?
It's an experience! It's like truly having the musicians in the same room with you. I've never heard any other system come close!

JB

MPWall1 · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:35 am Post subject:

dbacon,

jonnyboy is right...the way Mr. Adam had people manipulate his speakers to be in phase with his living room is amazing. i don't know how to describe it, except that you feel like you're IN the recording somehow. the speakers are perfectly tuned to his living room and everything vibrates together.

my new question is, what happens if you add or remove furniture???

michael
_________________
Michael Patrick Wall, Ed.D.
Independent Researcher in Music Education

razeontherock · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:52 am Post subject:

"anyone know a good acousitcal engineer in northern new jersey?"

Lee Creighton

MPWall1 · Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:25 am Post subject:

raze,

are you serious?

michael
_________________
Michael Patrick Wall, Ed.D.
Independent Researcher in Music Education

Karel · Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:50 am Post subject:

Just curious, what kind of music does Mr. Adam listen to mostly?

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Karel · Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:47 am Post subject:

Ok Dave, what is supposed to be good music?

lh · Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:12 am Post subject:

Just returning a little closer to the topic (yeah, I know... I can't believe that came from my mouth either!

)....

We just started setting up audio systems in our new teaching, recording, and performance spaces at school, and WOW! We used a Behringer Ultracurve 8024 and a reference mic for analysis, and transferred the data by hand to 1/3 octave graphic equalizers. The difference is astounding...

Buying the best equipment in the world and installing the best acoustic treatments in the listening rooms is not enough. This UC8024 or its offspring DEQ2496 can help you to establish a nearly flat response 35-16K, while removing room harmonics, asymmetric balance, and other unwanted extras from your room acoustics.

All of us can tweak our systems with incredible results given time, knowhow, and desire.
_________________
Eclipse Enigma Bb trumpet 2011
Olds Super Bb trumpet 1958
Eclipse Red Flugelhorn 2011
Selmer Paris model 59 Piccolo 1977
Conn New Invention Cornet 1913

ADziuk · Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:58 pm Post subject:

Incidentally, has anyone ever noticed that there is something to be said for listening to orchestral music on a very good system like Mr. Adam's vs. live. I mean, physically, unless you have 12 ears that you can detach and spread throughout the orchestra, you can never hear an orchestra that loud AND that balanced at the same time, as you can on a recording.

The only way to hear an orchestra as loud as it is on a turned up system is to sit in the middle of one, but then it is unbalanced because you hear the section you are sitting next to the most. The closest you can get is to be the conductor right in the middle in front.

MPWall1 · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:33 am Post subject: Bathed in sound

That feeling is what I love about his living room. No matter what recording he plays, you feel like you are being bathed in the sound--exactly how Mr. Adam talks about playing the trumpet.

There's something to be said about attending concerts, but for studying the sound--I would love to have a setup like he has.

Michael
_________________
Michael Patrick Wall, Ed.D.
Independent Researcher in Music Education

Derek Reaban · Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 12:37 pm Post subject:

Raining Harmonics
_________________
Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest

Don Herman rev2 · Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 3:11 pm Post subject:

Ah, speaker positioning... Something I used to know a lot about, and even got paid for doing it! (IHF Licensed Audio Consultant, grad courses in acoustics, blah blah blah -- no way I can prove it to you now, so trust me or not, your choice.) To do it right, with the right equipment, doesn't take all that long. (I'm talking about positioning, not designing -- the latter takes longer.)

Here's some things you can try on your own, at least if you have floor standing speakers, for a stereo system (turn off the surround speakers for this if you have them):

1. The speakers should each see the same environment. That is, don't put one in a corner and one out on a wall -- they'll have different response (frequency and phase).

2. Switch your system to mono and listen. If there's a "hole" in the middle, the speakers are 180 degrees out of phase. Flip the +/- connections on one speaker to fix. If you;re not sure, you can always flip the connections on one speaker, listen, then put them back (or not -- whichever way is correct).

3. Set up a listening spot centered between the two speakers. Measure it off if you need to. If your chair is at the apex of an equilateral triangle it'll be good enough. Much too close, or too far, is not good for sound.

4. Play some pink noise or simply a CD you know and love. Pick a short segment you can repeat. Now, try moving just one of the speakers closer and further away, adjusting the balance so the relative sound level is still the same from each. Move forward and back, starting in big (e.g. 1 - 2 foot) steps, and then refine it. Listen for when the sound image really locks in and fills the space in front of you. Hard to describe, but you'll know it when you hear it.

5. Stop there, mark the spots (with a piece of masking tape or something at the back of the speakers), sit back, and enjoy your music!

HTH - Don
_________________
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

TrumpetSquire · Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 3:56 pm Post subject:

I've gotten onboard with this thread pretty late, but here's what I have to offer. Visit Progressive Audio's website here www.progressiveaudio.com[url]. PA is in Columbus, Ohio in an unlikely location across the street from the Student Union at The Ohio State University. They are one of the absolute LEADERS in high-end audio and video retail and installation. On the 3rd floor of the store is their "2C3D Listening Room." That's 2-channel, 3-dimensions. The room, like Mr. Adam's must be, is acoustically engineered so that one specific listening location experiences sound totally unlike anywhere else. It is both mind-boggling to hear and mind-bogglingly expensive ($150K+).

I visited the store frequently when I was in college, and always received friendly treatment from the staff who surely knew that I wasn't there to make an immediate purchase. I took my old CD of Fritz Reiner conducting the Chicago SO in Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherezade and was blown away. I could have been in the loge in Orchestra Hall. I could see the two speakers in front of me, but I swore that I could "see/hear" the brass section playing from beyond the wall. The sound stage imaging was unbelievable. I could point to where the concertmaster sat as he played the violin solos. The percussion sounded like bass drums and tympani, not woofy-thuddy "bass." The triangle and cymbals had crystalline transparency and crispness.

It sounds from all you folks above that this must be what Mr. Adam's setup is like. I know I've never heard anything better outside of a concert hall than what I've heard at Progressive Audio. It costs big bucks, though--the Krell CD player alone sells for $20,000. Each of the Krell monoblock amps that powered the Avalon speakers list for something like $10 or $15K. You could literally hire the Chicago SO to play in your house for the price of this system, but with it you can experience their entire catalog of recordings live forever.

People used to say to me when I was in college that they thought PA had a lousy location on High Street near the university. I said they were dead wrong. They have one of the largest student bodies in the world at their disposal, and someday those students are going to grow up and make tons of money. I, for one, am undoubtedly going to hire PA someday to outfit my house, and I wouldn't dream of going anywhere else simply because they were nice to me as a poor college student. If you're ever in Columbus bring your favorite CD with you and ask to see what's on the third floor--you'll be whisked away with a smile and, if you close your eyes, you'll be in one of the world's finest concert halls with some of the world's finest musicians a few feet away.[/url]

Bill Bryant · Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 4:02 pm Post subject:

Thanks, Don. Speaker placement talk brings back memories of a happy time when I worked for a high end stereo store and did a lot of in-home installations. I was the speaker placement guy and used to bring multi-band EQ measurement equipment, pink noise/white noise generators, measuring tape, etc. etc. to stately homes and make their music rooms sing. Then came home theater, and in so many rooms the ideal for movie sound and the ideal for stereophonic reproduction at the highest level has turned out to be incompatible and most well-heeled customers these days go for nice home theater sound over utimate 3-D stereo soundstaging.

But I do remember some of those ultimate systems we set up.

Did you ever use the golden ratio when setting up speakers?

I quote George Cardas of Cardas Audio about this: