Vintage King questions

[FLgargoyle]

I have a near perfect King Master Bb/C cornet. According to the serial number, it was made in 1917. One problem- it plays almost 1/2 step flat. I made a new slide out of some copper pipe fittings, and it works, but it looks ugly. Is there any way to shorten the original tuning slide (it's very small, almost the same width as the first valve slide) The one I made is about 3/4" shorter. Or would it destroy the 'value' of the horn? I paid $25 for it. The mpc. might be of the same age; it says Conn on the shank, 'Booster' on the outside of the cup, and it's a typical deep-vee w/ a small sharp rim. It works better on this horn than a modern 7C, though. I think I could grow to love this old horn; it has a very mellow tone. The original case was eaten by termites, so I made a copy and used the original hardware. It has all the slides for 'C' use, also.
_________________
Jay
'64 Olds Super Trumpet
'35 Conn 40B Vocabell
'55 King Master Cornet
'40 Conn Aida Trumpet
'21 Boston Alto Horn

[nieuwguyski]

Jay,

I've been perusing the King cornet model list at the hnwhite.com site, and I don't see a Master Bb/C model. The C/Bb/A models I do see are the very early "Combination," and the later "Vocal." You might want to go to that site and compare your cornet to the catalog illustrations to see exactly what you have.
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J. Notso Nieuwguyski

[FLgargoyle]

I looked at the H N White website; you're right, it looks like a 'Vocal'. But it does say 'Master' on the bell. That may explain the mystery of the flat condition; the catalog said that the key of A was achieved by a slide change. Apparently, I have the 'A' slide. The Bb is missing. I wonder if I could shorten the slide?
_________________
Jay
'64 Olds Super Trumpet
'35 Conn 40B Vocabell
'55 King Master Cornet
'40 Conn Aida Trumpet
'21 Boston Alto Horn

[DCB1]

Does it look like any of these?
http://www.vintagecornets.com/html/hnwhite_king_cornets.htm

http://www.cornetsite.nl/index_bestanden/BbCornetsK.htm

Usually the horn is made a A by moving the Bb slide around. To make it a C would require different slides.
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DCB <><
John 14:6
Member since 2001
Curry
Bach
Selmer Radial
Kanstul
Holton
Amati
Conn

[FLgargoyle]

My horn is identical to that one. Even the original case looked like that one before the termites got it. The horn in the picture has 5 extra slides;mine only has 3, all marked 'C'. The tuning slide on the Bb/C rotary valve is longer than the one in the picture; the one not installed, just below the horn, is what mine looks like. My mouthpiece looks very much the same, too. I'm guessing I would need a shorter slide to get it up to pitch; as I said, I made one out of copper water pipe that puts it on pitch. Are parts for these things possible to find? I am a toolmaker, and I could probably do a decent job of shortening the 'A' slide, but I wouldn't want to lower the value. Or is it not worth much to begin with? I notice it feels stuffy on certain valve combinations; I've had it all apart and gave it a pretty good cleaning. I think the valves are a bit loose, for one thing. I like the sound of it; intonation is a little iffy, but nothing I can't lip.
_________________
Jay
'64 Olds Super Trumpet
'35 Conn 40B Vocabell
'55 King Master Cornet
'40 Conn Aida Trumpet
'21 Boston Alto Horn

[Tom K.]

I have the same Vocal Master. The intonation issues improved dramatically by using a short shank Yamaha 11E4 mouthpiece. It was like magic. It seemed to open the horn up as well, as the throat is larger and the cup is a deep V.
_________________
"At the round earth's imagined corners, blow
Your trumpets, angels" -John Donne
50s Olds Ambassador
70s Yamaha 738
80s King 650 flugel
90s Bach 184 cornet
90s Bach Strad 37
10s Carolbrass 5060 C trumpet
10s Schilke B5 trumpet

[DCB1]

True! With the older cornets you really need to use a short shank mouthpiece!! There are several maker who make them.... Warburton, Curry, Yamaha and of course the vintage pieces.
_________________
DCB <><
John 14:6
Member since 2001
Curry
Bach
Selmer Radial
Kanstul
Holton
Amati
Conn

[plankowner110]

[FLgargoyle]

The mpc. with the King is a great deal shorter than a modern one. It is even flatter w/ a longer mpc. I don't know if it's really intonation, but the horn feels different with different valve combinations; it gets stuffier feeling. It could well be the valves are badly out of alignment. Or it could just be that it's almost 90 years old!
_________________
Jay
'64 Olds Super Trumpet
'35 Conn 40B Vocabell
'55 King Master Cornet
'40 Conn Aida Trumpet
'21 Boston Alto Horn