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Derek Reaban
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 Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:49 am Post subject: PH - Focusing on the 3rd Harmonic!! |
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Pat,
Quite a while ago you wrote about "sound" in the Adam forum and provided a very interesting example that I liked in concept, but I didn’t fully understand how to apply in my own practice day. You wrote:
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For an Adam Student a "great sound" is one that has all of the harmonic spectrum present and balanced in the tone. When I play my long tones I feel like I am developing the fundamental and overtones in my trumpet sound as if I were standing in front of a brass choir tuning and balancing the notes of a chord until it sounds absolutely perfect.
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I’ve always thought about overtones as describing the specific sounds that I hear. For instance a flute, trumpet, and clarinet all playing the same pitch have unique sounds due to the different strengths of the various overtones. I hear the complete package of overtones. But as far as actually hearing the individual overtones in a given sound (while I certainly understand that they are there) alludes me.
You wrote something yesterday in the LeeC thread that really captured my attention.
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Playing a sound model for a student to emulate that has more of the 3rd and 7th partials of the harmonic spectrum present causes the student to relax tension in a different part of their body than does playing a sound with a lot of fundamental and the first and second overtone.
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Conceptually I understand what you have written, and I know that I have experienced some of the best sound models out there so I know I’m getting the "big picture". To actually hear the 3rd or 7th partials though, is just beyond my current capability.
As I was practicing tonight, I started thinking about the 3rd partial, and I wondered if I could even generate this sound in my head when I was playing. I am very much attuned to the "fundamental" while I play as I’m sure 98% of the players out there are. After I played my first long tones of the evening, I sang an octave and a fifth above the fundamental (the 3rd overtone). Then I whistled it (which was easier for me). I really had to focus to keep this sound in my mind while the fundamental was coming out my bell.
But you know what? I was so focused on "sound" that my playing tonight had a very relaxed, brilliant quality to it. I’ve never been so focused on what I was hearing (or at least trying to hear).
Then I decided to go up the piano and play some of the exercises that I was working on in combination with the 3rd overtone. I was just doing simple lip slurs (low C, second line G, third space C, second line G, low C). On the piano I played the C major arpeggio in the left hand and a G major arpeggio in the right hand (a 12th above the fundamental). Wow! When I went back into my practice room I had a much more vivid image of my sound! That is a picture of sound that is real and with practice I'm pretty sure I can learn to hear sound in this way.
I still can’t pick out individual overtones in the sound, but tonight was a real foray into something that I know you strongly advocate and I’ve been trying to get my mind around for a long time. I can now see the level of effort required to keep my mind strictly on the sound (not just the fundamental). If I can ever get the 7th partial to work, I’ll be amazed.
I just wanted to share this story and if you have any additional pointers, I would love to hear them.
Thanks!
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Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest
Last edited by Derek Reaban on Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Don Herman rev2
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Not PH, but maybe I can throw out a couple of things...
Odd harmonics produce square waves (in the right amplitude ratios and phase relationships, of course). These exhibit a "raspy", "brassy", "buzzy", or "buzz-saw" sound. My experience, such as it is, leads me to belive that, in their effort to sound "dark", most brass players do not have anywhere near enough of this quality in their sound. These upper partials tend to die out more quickly than the lower ones (in most rooms) and chances are good that when you, behind the bell, think it's too "brassy" or "bright", then it's "just right" out in the hall.
Even harmonics (again, in the right amplitude/phase relationship) produce triangle waves. These are "softer", "darker", "mellower" sounds.
A pure fundamental is a sine wave, and is most closely sounded by a flute.
There. That should have the engineers going "duh!" and the musicians goig "huh?", with a few like Derek and I who play both sides nodding along...  My point? Perhaps striving for a "brassy" sound ain't such a bad thing after all, and might (for some) be easier to "hear" than trying to figure out the third harmonic...
FWIWFM - Don
p.s. Derek, since I know you can and I'm lazy (ok, busy at work, shhhh!), perhaps you could print out a table of just a few notes and their harmonics for people to reference? So they know which keys on the piano to push...
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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swthiel
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:27 am Post subject: |
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AHA! I just managed to put something together!
At ITG 2004, Phil Norris talked about "listening for the buzz" in one's sound. (See [url=http://www.trumpetguild.org/2004conference/sat/502b.html] the conference report[/url] here.) I listen for the "buzz" and/or the third partial (which sounds to me like a "ringing" component in the sound that gives the sound more life), but I'd never put the two together. Duh!
Don, you just supplied the physics (odd harmonics = square waves = "buzzy") my feeble engineer's mind needed to put the two together and help me understand what's going on.
Thanks, guys, for providing me with another tool ... now I'll have to sort out that 7th partial!
I also still have to sort out how to get the same life in my sound when I play softly, but that's another thread!
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Derek Reaban
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Don,
Great points! Thanks for bringing them up!
As far as a simple chart showing the harmonic structure:
Fundamental............Low G.....................Low C
2nd Harmonic.............2nd Line G................3rd Space C
3rd Harmonic..............4th Line D................TOS G
4th Harmonic..............TOS G......................High C
5th Harmonic..............B (below High C).......E above High C
6th Harmonic..............D above High C.........G above High C
7th Harmonic..............F above High C..........Bb above High C
where TOS is Top of Staff
To find the 3rd harmonic, it’s always an octave and a fifth above the note being played (fundamental). To find the 7th harmonic, it’s up 2 octaves and down a full step from the fundamental.
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Derek Reaban
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Derek Reaban
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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I should point out another important aspect of listening for the 3rd harmonic in my recent practice session. I am very good about generating my current sound model, which contains a lot of vibrancy and resonance. When I fall into this sound, I tend to put myself on autopilot, and when this happens I find my mind begins to swirl with lots of things besides "long tones". In fact, my mind is always racing with ideas.
When I consciously focused my mind on hearing the 3rd harmonic, my mind went quiet and I really was trying to get this "pitch" to sound in my mind simultaneously with the fundamental sound that I was hearing. This was extremely difficult for me, but what it did for me was to quiet the chatter that I usually experience during this part of my maintenance work.
When I get to etudes or excerpts, I am thinking musically, and I hear the music in my mind (little to no chatter). When I’m playing the long tones I get very complacent because my sound is very good. And that is exactly the problem that I’ve always come up against!
To move from good to great requires a great deal of planning (at least for me). When I’m focusing on the 3rd harmonic, I’m turning off my autopilot and taking control of something. By doing this, I’m allowing my subconscious to take over more aspects of sound production. I’m reminded of the line from the Inner Game of Tennis where the student is having a terrible time returning a serve. Her instructor has her focus intently on where her left foot is when she is waiting for the serve to come across the net. When her mental focus is transferred away from “RETURN THE SERVE”, to something else (anything else), she is allowing her body to do what it can easily do. Give the control over the subconscious.
Anyway, just another aspect of what’s going on with this practice technique that I though I should bring up. To get back to my "most resonant" sound, I have to continually find new ways to quiet my mind and let my body to its thing!
Good thoughts! Keep them coming.
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Derek Reaban
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Billy B
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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I have a cheap eletronic tuner that will pick up the harmonics when I really have the sound going. When my dogs will start to howl I know the sound is happening.
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PH
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy B wrote: | | I have a cheap eletronic tuner that will pick up the harmonics when I really have the sound going. When my dogs will start to howl I know the sound is happening. |
That is one reason I like to use the old strobe tuners (the ones with the spinning meters) when trying horns. I can see the presence of the full harmonic spectrum, but more importantly, I can see if some of the overtones go out of tune or disappear as I change dynamics.
Derek, I don't mean to make it sound like one particular harmonic is the most important. For different people with different problems I find (as exemplified by Mr. Adam's teaching) that different harmonics (or different tone colors if you will) are the right prescription for that particular student.
The main thing is to find all the "notes within the note" you are playing. This gets back to your older post about resonance. When you have good equipment and play in phase with the instrument you will find that all of these little notes are present when you are playing the main note.
Does that make sense?
As a player I do not think of the specific harmonics, but rather imagine the precise color I want on the sound. When playing long tones I find that my quest for a particular color is like standing in front of a brass choir tuning and balancing a chord. When I want a different kind of tone I simply rebalance the chord but I never take any notes from the chord!!!
A good trumpet tone always has all the notes present...the full harmonic spectrum. A "bright" tone should still have plenty of lows in the sound but the highs should predominate. A "dark" sound should still have plenty of highs but the lows predominate. In effect the chord is rebalanced.
I like Derek's exercise as one way to sensitize your ear to noticing the harmnics in your sound. Another thing is to simply practice long tones ocassionally in a VERY live room...even a bathroom. You will notice the highs more in a small live room. Mr. Adam showed me that you can hear certain parts of the harmonic spectrum more obviously if you put your finger in your ear or if you cup your had around your ear (in effect making your ear bigger). Each of these things makes your ear pick up certain wave lengths more readily.
Mr. Adam says that you want to "hear the baby crying" as part of your tone. When I first noticed this kind of presence in my sound I found that I often thought the phone was ringing while I was playing, but when I quit playing to answer the phone the ringing stopped. It was me that was ringing!
When you get an entire section where everyone has these kind of rich full-spectrum tones and where everyone plays in tune you get a completely different musical effect. Resultant tones...sum tones and difference tones for you acoustics geeks..seem to thicken the chord and give a rich presence at all volumes. I remember once hearing a master class with the section from the Cincinnati Symphony. All of the players were outstanding. However, there was a noticable difference in the richness of the section whenever Marie Speziale was playing. Her opulent sound and uncanny sense of intonation automatically made everyone esle sound dramatically better.
The bottom line is that you want to hear all the harmonic spectrum blended into a single sound in your mind. However, it can be helpful at times to focus your awareness and seek the presence of certain parts of that spectrum. |
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gtromble
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Not having a strobe tuner, I decided to try locking the sustain pedal on my piano down, play a note, then listen to the piano resonate, which changes very definitely as I change the trumpet sound. Helps me find the trumpet sound that brings out the richest resonance from the piano.
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grooveduke
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:15 am Post subject: |
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This is a thread worth printing, because it gets to the root! While it is very interesting to hear what other people think is happening (in the body) when playing trumpet, it really does confuse the causewith the effect.
I never got to the point where I could hear all of the overtones as individual entities. But I sure did learn to hear him emphasize one or two at a time. The first time that happened (it sounded like a tone in a hearing test), it freaked me out. I knew that it was possible, however, because the horn teacher at my school could do it and said his father heard sound that way. How do some people do that naturally? |
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Billy B
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:14 am Post subject: |
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The same way some people hear a chord identify the individual notes while some observe the general feel and energy of the sound. The truly gifted can do both.
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Bill Scott
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Mr. Adam says that you want to "hear the baby crying" as part of your tone. When I first noticed this kind of presence in my sound I found that I often thought the phone was ringing while I was playing, but when I quit playing to answer the phone the ringing stopped. It was me that was ringing! |
I 'hear' (I think) the partials, but I've never played around with trying to identify which ones go where. However, the quote above is a real 'A HA!' moment as I have had that happen several times and I could never figure out what was happening. I thought that the vibration from the sound was triggering the phone to ring---but it's the sound itself?!
I also have a dog that hates it when I really get the sound going. He's outside barking, howling and just going nuts.
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There are two sides to a Trumpeter's personality: There is the one that lives only to lay waste to the woodwinds and strings, leaving them lying blue and lifeless along the swath of destruction that is a trumpeter's fury. Then there's the Dark Side" |
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mcamilleri
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Part of what is going on is simply playing properly in tune. Do this and you get a rich harmonic spectrum. Too many of us just play away ignorant of the fine tuning of our instruments, or playing consisently flat or sharp.
I think this is one big difference between the pros that sound great with fantastic tone and the amateurs that are just OK. The pros play in tune, on every note from start to finish. This brings out the maximum resonant response from their instrument with a richer harmonic content, especially at high frequencies.
Their pitch is also more stable, so instead of the pitch wavering and spreading those harmonics out, they are more stable which when the sound is bouncing around a hall means the sound reinforces itself instead of smearing itself out.
Exactly what goes on when you focus on the 3rd harmonic or whatever I don't know, but I do know that if you focus your attention on your sound you will likely play with better intonation and more stable pitch.
Also, if intonation is important to you you WILL find equipment that helps intonation, and a mouthpiece/horn combo that gives good intonation also, by simple physical laws, has a more resonant response than one that doesn't.
Play well, play in tune.
Michael
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razeontherock
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| So in my now sold Bach the 7th partial was always dominant when I played it, and now it's the third. Where would this indicate my main source of obstructive tension is? |
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mcamilleri
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'm guessing a broken solder joint in the Bach? That REALLY gets some high harmonic buzzing going
Michael
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razeontherock
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Nah, that '78 was a tank. (I know you were only kidding) |
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mcamilleri
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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My 77 Olds Special is also a tank. 30 years of playing and no dent bigger than a pin-head, and it has spent more than a decade in a lightweight gig-bag. They sure knew how to build solid horns then...
Whoops! Way off topic!
Michael
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PH
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mcamilleri wrote: | Part of what is going on is simply playing properly in tune. Do this and you get a rich harmonic spectrum. Too many of us just play away ignorant of the fine tuning of our instruments, or playing consisently flat or sharp.
I think this is one big difference between the pros that sound great with fantastic tone and the amateurs that are just OK. The pros play in tune, on every note from start to finish. This brings out the maximum resonant response from their instrument with a richer harmonic content, especially at high frequencies.
Their pitch is also more stable, so instead of the pitch wavering and spreading those harmonics out, they are more stable which when the sound is bouncing around a hall means the sound reinforces itself instead of smearing itself out....
Play well, play in tune.
Michael |
Exactly right! Mr. Adam would call this playing "in phase" with the instrument. |
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| razeontherock wrote: | | So in my now sold Bach the 7th partial was always dominant when I played it, and now it's the third. Where would this indicate my main source of obstructive tension is? |
You would have to ask Adam...and he wouldn't want to tell you!  |
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razeontherock
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Awww, I knew that |
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PC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
Yes, as Pat says, this is what one should use long tones for! Listening, relaxing until all the harmonics richness of the sound appears. You will then be playing most efficiently for a given wanted dynamic!
A good exercise is to sound let's say a second line G and then mentally scan the sound searching for octava occurrences (G's) of the fundamental, try to hear the fifth, the third and if you can the seventh. When you can clearly distinguish the ninth, you know you have a rich tone and effortless production!
I find that by relaxing and dropping the pitch to where it should be, these harmonics suddenly appear and I can indeed now scan up to the ninth! All the partials should be present, but as you mentally shift attention from one to the other, you will kind of hear that one more strongly. And this is what you should strive for as a secret weapon instead of brutal force when playing loud passages in an ensemble!
Now, just remembering the rich sound should be enough to have it at wish and will also enable you to change tone quality, by probably making subtle embouchure/blow changes to get more velvety or more brilliant. It is not possible (I think) to consciously turn on and off this or that partial, but hearing the wanted tone should make these shifts happen automatically, once you have this tone richness at your disposal. Trying to force it consciously will, I believe, only result in out of tune, dull tone versus in tune rich tone, as pointed out above.
Good topic,
Pierre. |
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