pivot system types of some famous players

BeboppinFool · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 9:38 am Post subject:

Sandy (and all others who might be interested),

Those mouthpieces are still available (last I knew) through Dave Sheetz. Look elsewhere on this forum for his new website, or I believe there's a link at http://www.pivotalk.com . . . Dave is the cat who knows the most about those mouthpieces.

He might even divulge that at one time I was "high" on those mouthpieces and dedicated a lot of time and money trying to promote and sell them, and finally got discouraged. Doc himself couldn't get too excited about the brass community at large deciding that those were the greatest mouthpieces in the world . . . even though he and I both believed in them 100%.

Another "oh, well" in my life. I "went back" to metal in 1987 and have been there ever since. Swimming upstream gets to be quite exhausting.

Rich
_________________
Puttin’ On The Ritz

Wilktone · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 2:41 pm Post subject:

Thought I'd resurrect this topic, since I got the chance to type Rich on trumpet and bass trumpet. Yep, he is indeed a type IVA on bass trumpet. That was pretty easy to see. My transparent trumpet mouthpiece is a little cloudy, but I'm almost positive that he plays as a IIIB on trumpet.

Curious. Anyone else ever run into players who play on different types on different brass instruments like this?

Dave W.
_________________
wilktone.com

BobList · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:02 am Post subject:

Ok.....I'm a 3-a, and I tend to tilt my head back identical to Rich's in the photo for the same gliss...it's like I can't stop it....what is detrimental about this, and how can I correct it?...I do know that sometimes it's like smacking the note too hard, and it may not come out......should I concentrate on keeping the head still, and just pushing the jaw out a bit?...... Bob List, Baltimore

BeboppinFool · Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:35 am Post subject:

BobList · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:50 am Post subject:

Rich...did you know that you appear to tilt back like that?...It was pointed out to me( when I play) by Scott Holbert.....Another player says that's when I "slam" into the note too hard...
now that I am aware of it...it bothers me, because that's when I will not "get a good one" up high...if I can conciously not tip back the head...it screams..
The other day, I was on the phone with Holbert, and I let him hear a wonderful arpeggio to above double C..he said that was a real note, good-n-loud...I didn't tip my head back, because I was thinking about it...I also started on the second line G, with chops set up as if it was 2 octaves higher... the jaw was out as if I was already well above the staff...
Does anyone know of a way to stop tilting back?...or is it just "Don't tip back the head a thousand times" till it becomes habit?

Thanx, Bob List, Baltimore

airdyn · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 579

For Bob List:
Bob, when I want to find an answer to specific questions ( head tilt - "stay with the jaw" expression - etc.) I look in the Encyclopedia. Reading this many times thru has enabled me to know what's in it and where to find what I want. Sometimes I have to refer to one of my typed lessons from Doc, or listen one of his tapes, or even look at one of the many lesson sheets he created for all of his students ( and there are many I still don't have!) But that Encyclopedia is some book!
For the "head tilt" problem, read, re-read the chapter on The Posture and specifically "The Two Position" for the head. During the Pivot Stabilizer ( I do trust Scott gave that to you) - Keeping the Two Position for the head ...as you Pivot, make sure you pivot with the horn and NOT the head. If the problem persists, check what you are doing with your head on the Inhalations. What Doc had me do was to pick a spot on the opposite wall and align that spot with the bell of the horn...making sure not to move from that spot while Inhaling.
As to the "stay with the jaw" thing, page 152 of The Encyclopedia #28 states: "The principle duty of the lower jaw while playing is to provide an adequate playing base or foundation so that both the inner and outer embouchure may function as one solid synchronized unit, regardless of the player's type classification. This playing base must hold intact while the jaw is protruded and receded (according to the register being played) , regardless of any jaw malocclusion that may exist in the player's jaw formation. (Please read the rules for your type at the back of The Encyclopedia!) The expression "stay with the jaw" is quite common in the teaching of THE PIVOT SYSTEM."

So, Bob, correcting the "head position" PLUS keeping the weight on the lower jaw should correct any of that , how did you put it?, crashing into the notes.
Trust this does the trick.
Dave S.
p.s. Please visit my web site http://www.airstreamdynamics.com . I will be updating the Mechanics Page with a series called A DAILY CONSIDERATIONS QUESTIONAIRRE. And, of course , there is always Doc's site http://www.thereinhardtfoundation.org .

BobList · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 6:01 am Post subject:

Dave, Thanx for the info, and getting me to read the book again...lol......seems every time one looks into it...you tend pick up something you missed the first 13 times, and now it makes sense.....it's almost like you understand what he's saying when it's YOUR TIME to understand it.. if you know what I mean.

You can't keep weight on the lower jaw if you tip the head back...and if you do, you wind up pulling off of the upper lip..now, If I can just apply that knowledge while reading something like Nutville.... :^}

When I can keep the weight on the lower jaw, and not tip the head...it feels as if my lower jaw is a wood chisel, digging into the wood....not skidding across the top of it....hey, that analogy works for me, and I'm gonna use it... :^)

Great Foundation site...I'll look into it further when I get off work...I'm sneaking on the 'puter now...
Thanks again, Bob List

FlugelFlyer · Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:31 pm Post subject:

Interesting thread. While we're discussing some individuals, I don't have any pictures, but my lower teeth go from receeding in natural position to protruding while playing, but my mouthpiece placement is almost 50/50, or maybe slightly above. I still think I have the brassy sound of some of the IV players though, like Doc Severinsen or maybe Mic Gillette (IV?). Would I still be a type IV, or what could I possibly be then?

[add: looking at the marks on my lips, definately lower than 50/50 as opposed to what I said above]

_________________
FlugelFlyer: Trumpet, Pilot

Equipment:
---
Trumpet: Bach Stradivarious LR18072
Mouthpiece: Jet-Tone 7S
Aircraft: Cessna 152

I can play a note 2500' high. Can you?

[ This Message was edited by: FlugelFlyer on 2003-08-18 08:13 ]

Mr.Hollywood · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2002 Posts: 1730

Its impossible to know without seeing you.

Remember: Horn angle does not dictate where the airstream will go. Only the ratio of lower to upper lip can.

Chris

FlugelFlyer · Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:07 pm Post subject:

Bringing this thread back to the top, I checked out some pictures of Mike Bogart playing trumpet, and he looks like a suspect type III, though I can't decide between III and IIIB. Can anyone verify me on this?
_________________
Trumpet: Bach 180LR, 72 bell
Mouthpiece: Warburton 3XD/KT