did doc know about the "Elias Modern Scientific Trumpet Met

bulos · Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:06 am Post subject:

I was once told that much of Carmines teaching methods came from notes he had discovered in Clarino Players Guild journals he had somehow uncovered. These notes were from the time of bach and the apparently talked about nose breathing, long sretting,etc. and from these notes Carmine developed his approach. Now I can't document this but I do remember discussing it with others over 30 years ago perhaps someone can enlighten me a bit more. I think Doc probably had his sources too and I would suggest that interested parties investigate the "Elias Modern Scientific Trumpet Method" originally published in 1927. Elias had a very impressive players reume and was a student of Clarke. He was a staunch advocate of......LIP BUZZING.....hmm ring a bell? He basically had the student by free buzzing then trasferred that to the mouthpiece and then to the horn. He said the buzz should sound like a "fly on a window pane". His exercises took the student up to double C's ...in 1927! He also talks about circular breathing. Surprisingly , he advocates playing on a dry embouchure stating that will eliminate the tendency of the mouthpiece to slide around on the lips. you can get this book in reprint from:
johnkool@novia.net
Swoboda Kool Music
5130 South 20th street
Omaha,NE. 68107
My only interest here is one of curiosity. I was surprised at the amount of pointers in there that echoed things "Hairy James" told me years back when familiarizing me with the Reinhardt. Perhaps "Doc" knew or read this stuff for there are some obvious correlations? the elias is nowhere near as specifc ,consise,and all encompassing but there are some startling (I think) similarities.

bulos · Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:13 pm Post subject:

I posted some important pages from the Elias Scientific Method here:
http://www.paulayickvintagebrass.com/Misc/Elias%20Buzz%20Sys/
enjoy!

hairy james · Regular Member Joined: 25 Aug 2002 Posts: 93

Yo Paul ! Hey, anything is possible. Doc always used to say "Give a lesson, take a lesson." I have a book called " Eby's Scientific Method for Cornet or Trumpet" it was published in 1924. This book also has some things that remind me of Reinhardt and it goes up to "F" above double high "C"! No kidding. Dominick DiGangi gave it to me before he moved away from So.Florida. I have never seen another copy of this book, I never even knew that it existed until Dominick gave it to me .Jerry Callet knew about it, when I told Jerry I had It he insisted that I Fed-ex it to him immediately so he could copy it. There are things in this book I have never seen; Like "Valveless Etudes". there are five or six pages of complete etudes where you play from low "C" to high "G" and use no valves! It's a big book , about 400 pages. Hope all is well with you. Chris.

bulos · Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:41 pm Post subject:

PS: especially take note of new-4 I think it is pretty interesting........"Buzzing Firmness" what an original concept!

Hi Chris.hey you ain't so "Hairy" ..........you know Chris I studied with Carmine, Roy,and some great classical teachers, but Reinhardt was intoduced to me by you. I find myself always going back to the materials I got from you and the books I bought. Although I don't really believe in "playing a system" per se it is obvious that the man studied and observed with zeal and his observations are most astute. I know first hand what a dogmatic approach such as the "Costello" can do to a player and I think Reinhardt was as much a student of the brasses as he was a teacher. Wish I had gotten to see him. Yes I also have copies of the EBY'S SCIENTIFIC METHOD and I totally agree...............hey maybe there really ain't nothing new under the sun?

bulos · Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 6:45 pm Post subject:

I have posted some important from the Ely's Scientific Method mentioned by Hairy James for all to explore if so desired, see the pages here:
http://www.paulayickvintagebrass.com/Misc/Elys%20scientific%20method/

hairy james · Regular Member Joined: 25 Aug 2002 Posts: 93

Paul, I checked out the Elias stuff.Very interesting, I think there is a little too much left to chance in his instructions about how to buzz correctly. As you know, Doc always spelled out every detail to the smallest degree. I think I even gave you the "Four Buzzing Catagories." If you look at it you will see that Doc takes about two pages just to lay down the correct rules of buzzing. This is the reason why I think Doc's teachings will stay accurate and true to form over the passing years. When he wrote out a routine or had an idea about something he left nothing to chance. There was'nt anything vague about his teachings, He told all his students EXACTLY what he wanted. I'm glad to see you still have an intrest in Doc, and I hope the materials I gave you are still helping. Chris

[ This Message was edited by: hairy james on 2002-08-31 22:38 ]