Holton T101-102 Trumpets

[Robert Rowe]

[SMJ]

I was a music ed major at James Madison University(trumpet major,french horn minor)in the late 1970's.Studying at JMU also provided great exposure to the service bands in D.C. Several of the JMU students would study with the service musicians and often the service groups would come to campus to do clinics and concerts.

Next I went to repair school in Sioux City ,Iowa--apprenticed and repaired in several shops around the country and landed in Manufacturing at Martin Band in Kenosha,WI. I was primarily a utility trumpet player(jack of all trades and master of none)through college and thereafter. As I became more heavily involved in manufacturing, management and repairing part time for over fifteen years my playing took a back seat. Over the years as I designed and built horns for many players I always qualified my work by playing and evaluating. I am not out actively playing at this time-- so I guess I am what you might call a horn-player,of sorts.

[Albert Parrott]

Thanks again to Jim Stella for some fresh updates on Holton history.

I have been a lifelong fan of Holton's, and learned to play on several of them. Back around 2005, one of the last batches of T101's was sold by Chuck Levins for a bargain price. I don't remember the amount exactly, but I paid around $750 for a new T101S and it has served me very well. Often I am the only non-Bach Strad player in a section, and most people are unaware that my horn is any different from the rest.

I liked the T101S so much that I bought a new T102, in lacquer from Penninsula Music for roughly the same price as my T101S. The T102, as expected, plays a bit more openly, and to me has a warmer sound than the T101.

Not to highjack the thread, but I have a question for Jim Stella, and will post it in the Cornet-Fluglehorn section. Jim, can you tell me anything about the F101, history-wise. Thanks.

Al

[cyber_shake]

Welcome, Jim, and thanks for your input.

Is the T101 the same as the Holton 'Symphony'? I remember being at the KMEA (KY) conference in Louisville around 1981 or 1982 and seeing this new model (the Symphony) that certainly looked like a Strad with the twin bracing at the tuning slide ... it played really great and I always thought I would pick one up later when I had the cash (I was in college at the time).

I tried 2 that were in the T101-103 series at a dealer in the 90's that were nice, but not as good as what I remembered... so I never purchased one.

Anyway, I was curious about the Symphony name, and if different than the T101, I would like to know more
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[Albert Parrott]

[Capt.Kirk]

texter, that was a very honest intellectual honest thing to say and not many people would admit that in a public forum.

Let me now explain why that was you couldnot pull the trigger on the Holton. Some place in the back of your mind especial at the time you made the purchase you had it in your mind that Holton made junk and that the only real choice for a "Pro Trumpet" was a Bach Stradavarius......This happens in a lot of different product circles as well not just trumpets. So even though you thought highly of it and it might even have played better your mental concept of what equaled a pro horn and what equalled junk would not let you make the leap of faith you wanted to make.

I looked around the band room the other day and guess what had to be 5 different Bach Stradivarius poster's int he room. All of them had a Bach Strad trumpet on them. All the poster's on the walls where Bach not a single other brand was represented on the walls. The Band director while s Conn 88 lover and owner himself tells stories that normaly have a Bach Stradavarius in them.......Is it any wonder that a kid would pick a mediocre Bach Strad when other makes and models might be available and better at the time of the trials??? It might be a Getzen Genesis in Gold Plate but in the band room " it's not a Bach Stradivarius is it?" ?!?!?

As we age an pick up a bit more mileage a lot of things are more clear to us when we look backwards then they where to us at the time. This is why we have saying like "Hind sight is 20/20!"! I do not think most band directors do their kids any favors by pushing Bach the way they do. I think it would be of a lot more use if they taught the kids how to properly try out a bunch of horns and pick the right one for them!!!

I did not know anything about Holton T101 and 102 until I got on the internet myself. I knew they played really well and that I liked how they played but I had no idea they where made on the old Mt. Vernon tooling! I am consistent though because I have always liked the Mt. Vernon Bach's over the modern models and I liked the the Holton T101's and such.

I always liked the Old Holtons and by old I do mean Old!!! So I never had any problems accepting Holton as a premium maker of fine Brass Instruments. I did have a hard time with Getzen because when I was growing up they where like Blessing just another cheap student line......So it took quite a bit for me to take them seriously again after the origanal family bought the company back. So all of us will have a company that when we where kids was chasing the student rental market and is looked down upon for doing that. It goes in cycles and I am sure we will not be the last ones to have that happen.
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[cyber_shake]

[study888]

Hello SMJ(Jim Stella). Could you give your thoughts about the Holton T 104 Symphony model Trumpet. On the brass review,the differant options on the T 101-103 models are mentioned. But nothing much on the T-104 model.

It could not be a true clone model of the 38B Conn Constellation with a .459 bore etc.. Looks to be a hybrid balance of a Conn 38B/Bach 43 Strad Trumpet. I have just won a decent looking T 104, 1966 laquer brass/silver model off E-Bay. Have not received it yet, to try out.

One main thing that attracted it to me, over the other Holton Symphony models was the wider lead pipe wrap and more hand grip room. Thanks for any thoughts or info.

[ScottA]

FWIW-I would have very little confidence that current T101's would be similar to the very fine instruments I remember from 15-20 years ago. Every Holton trumpet that I have seen since the Conn-Selmer take over has been a shadow of it's former self. Most of my experience here is with the student horns but if that is any example...buyer beware.
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Indialantic, FL

[Albert Parrott]

[John Mock]

FWIW, Robert M. Sides in Williamsport, PA, had one remaining brand new Holton T-101 in stock recently (I was there a year ago). It is likely still there for anyone looking for that model. The one they have was made at least 10 years ago.

Also--I owned a T-101 from about 18 years ago. My parents still have it stored, cleaned, but not assembled and bagged, for a grandchild.

It is a fine horn for a high school player, but played for me, even with large mouthpieces, as a little bit too constricting.

There are better horns out there today than the T-101, much freer blowing, with a more open feel. I would tend to think the various Jupiter models would be a better choice, still at a reasonable price.

A lot of people who grew up then, 15 years ago, are still using their T-101's. I know of one hsbd who is still very happy with his.

John Mock
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[Brent]

Regarding the T104 model: I believe that has the same bell as the LeBlanc Committee T3460.

I had a T101 on the market for a while, but decided not to sell it. I was too afraid it would become 'the horn I wish I hadn't sold' trumpet.

Brent
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Brent

[Ozzbo]

I have a T-100X with the adjustable receiver, forward facing 2nd valve slide, minimum bracing, that was marketed as a Symphony model back in the early '80s. Also in my collection is a T-102 from "67 with the wide wrap, 1st trigger and very "Connstellation" looking but without the large bell and a larger .459 bore.

Very nice horns and both are extremely undervalued. During the 60's thru 80's Holton was really trying a lot of inventive ways to broaden their product selection.

[JDay]

I really like my T101-s, but it is interesting hearing other peoples experiences with them. The most common complaint seem to be that some people felt the blow was not very open on some of these. (At least not as open as they might like anyway...) I suspect that this may be an easy to fix. Why not try a Bach 43, or 25-O mouthpipe/leadpipe with one? Perhaps that would be the ticket to make a fine horn even better at a fairly minimal cost?

[James W. Leach]

I've got a T101 that's 20 years old that Jim Stella would call one of the
"exceptional ones" . Free blowing and very open upstairs . Just had Charlie Melk intall a new lever waterkey and Charlie said it was the best T101 he'd ever played .

[John Mock]

I have a friend/mentor who is a very fine local trumpet player.

When he first heard me on the T-101 Symphony model (yes, the bell on mine was stamped that way), he hated my sound. It was a rather "small" sound that I got out of it, and large mouthpieces like the Bach 3C (even with the throat drilled out 1 or 2 drill sizes) did not do enough to improve my sound. Also, the high range for me on the T-101 was just not that good.

He had me switch to a used Courtois 311TC trumpet, which has a bore size of about .463. Instantly my sound improved a lot in tems of "fullness". I then used two Courtois 311TC trumpets over the next 12 years or so.

Now I'm using the .460 bore Kanstul/Besson 800, which is a very "open" playing .460 horn.

I would have to say the T-101 plays a lot like the Bach Strads I have tried. The first thing I notice is the sound seems smaller, more compact, more centered, perhaps even more refined (certainly ok for a classical setting)--but I do not like the sound, as it seems to lack "personality". Some of the Kanstul horns that have copied the "37" bell, like mine, just seem to play more open and freer and the sound for me is fuller or broader. Those are my playing impressions.

I was also recently amazed at how shockingly well the Jupiter 1600i Roger Ingram trumpet plays--though it has a smaller bore size--it plays way more open. I would recommend that anyone looking for a good trumpet try it before buying either a T-101 or Bach 37 Bell Strad. I'd have a Jupiter 1600i now myself, but just don't have the money at the present time.

Also, I'd like to try the Yamaha 8335LA Bergeron model again. When I tried it, I thought my horn was better at the time, but if I played it for a week, that might change. I also consider the Yamaha 8335LA model to be superior to any Bach Strad or Holton T-101 I ever played.

Respectfully submitted--

John
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[SMJ]

Just wanted to mention that the T104 was slightly before my time with Holton/Leblanc,so I don't know much about it, but it was a wide model like a Constellation. By the way that horn was used to develop the T105 quarter tone trumpet played by Don Ellis.

The T100x was developed by Larry Ramirez in collaboration with Warren Kime out of Chicago. It was modeled after a Benge and had an extremely open leadpipe and lightweight bell as well as an adjustable gap receiver.

Regarding the T101 there were minor engraving changes over the years and variations of single crosspiece, double crosspiece, or Medallion as well as lever Vs. Amado waterkeys. Other than that the basic horn construction remained the same.

Lastly,after I came on board with Bach from Leblanc there was no need to make a copy of a Bach at the Bach plant, but they did carry over the Holton St 307 and ST 308 and they were making them when I was with them in 2006.

[tom turner]

[googanelli]

I just got a used t101 off ebay today. After cleaning it all out, changing springs and felts, and lubing her, I played it. This is definately a good horn. It looks very similar to my bach's. Maybe a little more even blow. I would recommend these for sure. It does blow like a very nice strad 37. A nice horn for the collection. I'll have it at the Cincy hang for all to try.

Joe
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[Manuel de los Campos]

So we can say that the difference between T 101 and T 102 is that the latter has less resistance? How can you see which model it is? Is it marked somewhere?
If yes, where?

Greetings from Holland, Manuel.