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Asian Man Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2003 Posts: 801 Location: Elkins Park, PA
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject: Bach 10 1/2C |
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I've been wondering about switching mouthpieces for a while. I'm still on the 7C and my teacher says i sound pretty good on it. I have a strong low register and i top out at a high A (1 ledger line). My teacher let me try a 3C and i couldn't handle the largeness nor could i with the 5MV or whatever it was. I tried his 10 1/2C, and sure it felt more resistant in the upper registersince i was playing my 7C for an hour before that, but my lower register was still good. Should I keep trying it? I won't really with districts auditions coming up in a week, but i have the cash, i could buy it offline maybe? _________________ Bach Strad (lacq.) 37
Yamaha C Trumpet (silver) YTR6445HS
Couesnon Monopole Flugelhorn circa 1970
7 rims (Curry)
www.myspace.com/whistlingbarofsoap |
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Pete Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 1739 Location: Western Massachusetts
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
If the 10 1/2 C does what you want it to do, use it. Some players, like me feel more comfortable on rim diameters smaller than the 7C. Carl Saunders uses similar diameters with great success. I remember a guy who conducted and played trumpet with the Ice Capades, years ago who played a Bach 10 1/2 C, and he was awesome! Adolph Herseth didn't play exceptionally large mouthpieces when he played with the Chicago Symphony. It's the results that matter.
Pete |
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plp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 7023 Location: South Alabama
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:14 am Post subject: |
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If you have a competition coming up, now is not the time to change mouthpieces. Go with what you are used to, and stick with the 7C until your performance demands allow you to trek into a mouthpiece safari.
I'm making the switch to Warburton cups and backbores right now, and a 6M is about the same size as a 10 1/2 C. I'm not sure what backbore is similar, but the backbores are numbered 1 through 10, with 1 being the tightest, and 10 the largest. I'm using a 5, and the resistence seems to be less than my 10 1/2 C. The beauty of the Warburton system is, if you find a good rim size, you can stick with a single rim diameter and go from a shallow S cup right through a XD or BB deep cup. You can switch backbores until you find the level of resistance that works best for your playing conditions. Check out their website and see if AFTER your competition, this might be a direction you want to go. |
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_PhilPicc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2002 Posts: 2286 Location: Clarkston, Mi. USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:32 am Post subject: |
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I played on Bach 5 & 6 series for years. After a switch to a more efficient embouchure I switched to a Bach 10-1/2C with no loss of the lower register or tone quality.
I'm also going to look at the Warburton to better adapt pieces for my cornet and picc playing.
As previously stated you should wait until after the competition before you work on the switch.
Best of luck,
Phil _________________ Philip Satterthwaite
We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal |
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KevinPierce Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 1448 Location: West Virginia
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:37 am Post subject: |
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Why? You didnt state any problem you have with the 7c?
If the 7c is working for you, by all means keep it. |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9365 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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The Bach 10-1/2C is very good for a small mouthpiece, but will make the tone color on most horns somewhat more bright than larger mouthpieces such as the 3C. As previously stated, you should play the familiar 7C for the audition. Experiment afterward. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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wvtrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 3131 Location: West Virginia
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Pete wrote: | Hi,
Adolph Herseth didn't play exceptionally large mouthpieces when he played with the Chicago Symphony.
Pete |
Is this true? I thought that he placed like a 1H rim with a B cup or something crazy like that. Anyone know for sure? _________________ Freelance Performer/Teacher WV, PA, MD, and OH http://www.neil-king.com
Yamaha NY Bb, Adams F1 Flugelhorn, Schilke P5-4, Stomvi Eb/D Elite, Bach C 229 bell 25A, York Monarch cornet. |
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wvtrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 3131 Location: West Virginia
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Someone told me that Wayne Bergeron plays a 10 1/2 C size piece. _________________ Freelance Performer/Teacher WV, PA, MD, and OH http://www.neil-king.com
Yamaha NY Bb, Adams F1 Flugelhorn, Schilke P5-4, Stomvi Eb/D Elite, Bach C 229 bell 25A, York Monarch cornet. |
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KevinPierce Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 1448 Location: West Virginia
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure Bud played a 1x
I've heard bergeron plays a 3c size piece |
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Mark Bradley Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 1149 Location: Kansas City
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:05 am Post subject: |
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I really like the 10 1/2C but after extended playing-- probably after some lip swelling in the course of hard playing, they start feeling prohibitively small, like trying to blow a pea through a straw. However, there are many players that work through that issue and have no problem with the so-called smaller diameter pieces. One of the greatest things about the 10 1/2C is it's exceptional tone, I believe it has a unique (to Bach), albeit subtle, double cup design. But it is deep, deeper than a 7c... it can wear you down. If you find yourself happy with a Bach 10 1/2C, fine, but there are some very good alternatives out there that "may" work better. The Laskey 40 series comes to mind, particularly the 40S. Also the Marcinkiewicz numbers 6 thru 10, with #6 being his closest version of the 10 1/2C and the upper numbers gradually getting more shallow. Nice playing pieces. I've found the Curry 10 1/2Cs to seem be much smaller than the Bachs. They must be based of old Mt.Vernons or NY models or gosh knows what, nothing like the new Bachs-- the Curry 10 1/2Cs are way too small for me. The GR 62M would probably be the best alternative of all. Right now I'm pretty happy with a GR 63M. it's right inbetween a 10 1/2C and 7C (life is full of compromises!). But still, if the standard ol' Bach 10 1/2 works, there's nothing wrong with that. |
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bachstrad72 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2002 Posts: 871 Location: NJ/Philly
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Pete is referencing the fact that when Mr. Herseth won the job in Chicago he was playing a Mt. Vernon straight 7 (no letter). After an accident that split his lip and caused much scar tissue, he switched to a 1 rim so as to feel the mouthpiece better. Also towards the end of his career he went back to the 7. _________________ ~Perry Sutton~ |
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Pete Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 1739 Location: Western Massachusetts
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:22 am Post subject: |
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The biggest problem with moving down to a smaller mouthpiece is that the same feel is expected. You can't approach it that way. You have to use common sense and give it a little time. I wasn't suggesting the change before an audition, by the way.
To my knowledge, Wayne Bergeron still plays on a Marcinkiewicz Shew 1.5, and the Monette mouthpiece catalog prior to the updated one, had the B7H mouthpiece listed as the Herseth model. I believe that this was approximately the size of a Bach 7B. He did win the CSO position with a Bach 7. The ITG (International Trumpet Guild) is a great resource if you haven't checked it out yet. The interviews with Herseth and others are quite intersting.And the Kanstul Comparator has both mouthpieces listed on the site.
Again, don't worry so much about who plays what. If you get the results that you want after a reasonable amount of time, then you should use that size. I use various mouthpieces from time to time depending on the gig, but the rim diameter stays approximately the same. I don't go from a Warburton 6M to a Bach 1C for example. There also is not a great difference in size between a Bach 7C and the 10 1/2 C. The subtle size difference can offer better results for some. Moving to a slightly larger diameter for some people is successful also. Everyone is different. That's why there are so many mouthpiece sizes available.
Pete |
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Brent Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 1099 Location: St. Paul, MN
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:35 am Post subject: mouthpiece |
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If you're looking at the 10.5 range, you might want to consider the Stork 7 size. To my lips, it's somewhere between a Bach 7 to 10.5. I've found my Stork 7D is better than the Bach 10.5C in every aspect. _________________ Brent |
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Asian Man Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2003 Posts: 801 Location: Elkins Park, PA
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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I feel that maybe the 7 rims are a little too wide for me and i want to experiment more. I found that the larger rim pieces make my lips get out of focus. I'm bottoming out a little on the shallower 7 rim mouthpieces so using a smaller rim may keep my lips from protruding as much. _________________ Bach Strad (lacq.) 37
Yamaha C Trumpet (silver) YTR6445HS
Couesnon Monopole Flugelhorn circa 1970
7 rims (Curry)
www.myspace.com/whistlingbarofsoap |
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rgeba Regular Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2001 Posts: 75 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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I was a long time 10 1/2 C user who went larger and has now returned to the mothership. I find the Laskey 40C (which is supposed to be a 10 1/2 C clone) to be more comfortable with slightly bigger sound.
If you are looking for a tweener (between 7C and 10 1/2C), you might want to try a Yamaha 11B4. They are fairly inexpensive, and you might like the fit. |
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chapahi Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 1467 Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:58 am Post subject: |
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It's funny, but I feel more cramped with a 7C than with a 10 1/2 C. I wonder why that is.
Incidently, I was in a shop and tried a Curry 10 1/2 B and really liked it. It has a fuller sound than the 10 1/2 C but still the directness of the 10 1/2C cup. Also it feels more free-blowing. _________________ Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super |
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mark schorah Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 668
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Hey, i know that gary wilder uses a 10 1/2 C n he can scream like crazy and then create a beautuiful smooth dark jazz tone. If you want to ask anyone pm him, his a nice bloke
Mark |
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Asian Man Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Oct 2003 Posts: 801 Location: Elkins Park, PA
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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my teacher told me he has like 5 other 10 1/2C's and he'll give me one. _________________ Bach Strad (lacq.) 37
Yamaha C Trumpet (silver) YTR6445HS
Couesnon Monopole Flugelhorn circa 1970
7 rims (Curry)
www.myspace.com/whistlingbarofsoap |
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trumpethead Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 444 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Mark Bradley wrote: | I've found the Curry 10 1/2Cs to seem be much smaller than the Bachs. They must be based of old Mt.Vernons or NY models or gosh knows what, nothing like the new Bachs-- the Curry 10 1/2Cs are way too small for me. |
Old thread but my recent experience echoes what's written above, for those like me who didn't realise.
Curry pieces are great but his 10 1/2C is just so tiny, compared with every other one I've seen - in fact, not even close to the two Bach pieces I have. From memory, probably more in line with his 600 series 00 sizes. |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9365 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:21 am Post subject: |
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trumpethead wrote: | ...Curry pieces are great but his 10 1/2C is just so tiny, compared with every other one I've seen - in fact, not even close to the two Bach pieces I have. From memory, probably more in line with his 600 series 00 sizes. |
If the Curry is based off a Mt. Vernon 10-1/2C, then that could explain it. At one time, I had two Bach 10-1/2C mouthpieces, a modern one and a Mt.V one. The Mt.V one was MUCH smaller than the modern one. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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