Large Bore

[so55]

What are the pros and cons of large bore trumpets in playing jazz?

Is it a disadvantage in
- ease of playing
- bending notes
- playing fast licks
- playing soft
- endurance, etc...

Is it an advantage in getting
- a richer and darker sound
- a full sound in high register, etc..

Or is there just a marginal difference between large and ML in practice?
I am concerned with small jazz settings in all the above questions.

[BobList]

It's just a trumpet... use whatever you play best on..

the only difference I might find, is does the horn project forward well, or will the sound kinda spread "sideways"?....play a horn with both qualities if possible...

Bob.

[Pete]

It all depends on the horn. I own a Bach LT180 ML (.459) with a 43 leadpipe. I also owned a few CG Benge (.468, with .464 bell Choke)trumpets in the past. I have always felt that the Bach played very similarly to the CG Benges as far as feel, projection, and resistance. Both are great horns, but different bore sizes. The 8310Z also plays well. This is a M bore (.445) similar to a Schilke B6. I played on a Yamaha 739T (.463) for quite some time when I played a lot of lead stuff. It was bright and open. Similar to a Schilke X3.I could never get it to "calm down" for small group stuff. It was always too much.

I think that the darker or brighter sound comes from the metal, and weight of the horn more than bore size. What you play for a mouthpiece has some effect, and the leadpipe and bell combinations are also not all identical. There are many variables to consider. It's what feels best to you.

Pete

[_dcstep]

You have to name two specific trumpets for comparison. Generalities of comparing large bore vs. ml bore just don't work. Just today, a couple of friends and I were comparaing a Callet Jazz to my Concept TT, both large bores, with the Callet at .470 and the TT at .463 yet the TT felt freer blowing and more dynamic.

So, generalities don't work. If you'll name some horns you're considering, then we might be able to help you better.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[DLoeffler]

Both Pete and dcstep have given you all the info you need. The material, weight, bracing... all those things come into play. I have a ML .460 Lawler that is almost 20 years and a .470 Taylor Chicago Custom. I don't see any difference in the blow of each horn. They appear to be identical, at least to me. However, the horns are completely different regarding sound due to the variables that Pete and dcstep have pointed out.

One other thing to think about - early Maynard, Cat Anderson, Fats Navarro, those guys played on small bore horns and screamed. Now the fad appaears to be ML and L bores. Try several and see what works best for you.
_________________
Drew Loeffler
http://www.eastshoremusic.com

[so55]

Thank you all for the answers. Sorry for not giving specific trumpets. What I had in mind while asking this question was Martin Committees or Imperials. I'm afraid of losing the flexibility and ease of playing of M/ML if I buy an L but I also expect a deeper and richer sound from an L. Furthermore, the demand for the large bore seems to be less so I hope to find a horn at a lower price. Am I right or TOTALLY wrong???

[DLoeffler]

Price doesn't seem to have much to do with bore size. A vintage Committee (.453) in average shape may be $1500, great shape $2000 to $3000 and up. Good medium bore horns start around $700 used. Brand new, both bore sizes start at around $1400 and go up to the price of a new car.

Don't forget, it is how the horn is put together that determines the blow and response, not the bore size.
_________________
Drew Loeffler
http://www.eastshoremusic.com

[_dcstep]

IMHO, when considering Committees the medium bore horns from the 1940s are the very best Committees. They've got a great warm sound, tons of flexibility and super responsiveness. They're easy to play in tune and they're unbeatable for sliding around between notes. The large bores, IMHO, have an overblown (no pun) reputation. They get bid up on Ebay because they're rarer, but I think they're not as fun to play.

I'm not too familiar with the Imperial; however, I've played early Magnas that were as good as the Committees. Still, I think your best bet is to look for a good late forties or early fifties medium bore Committee.

I just sold my 1946 Committee. The list of people that wanted it was long and I didn't even advertise it. I think you should expect to pay $1200 to $1800 for a good medium bore of a good vintage. Happy hunting.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[NTlead]

[tom turner]

[BeboppinFool]

Amen, Tom. I couldn't have said it better. Specs are meaningless if the horn doesn't let you play your best.

I play a 1940 Olds Super and I couldn't be happier. I play this for everything, and I have no idea what the bore size is, and I don't care.

By the way, when I saw the subject for this topic, I thought it was talking about the Super Bowl, one of the largest bores I can think of.


_________________
Puttin’ On The Ritz

[musiclifeline]

Someone posted earlier that Maynard played a small bore horn early in his career... he actually played a large-bore Committee for years before he picked up the Connstellation.

In any case, specifically regarding Committees...

I've owned a '55 M bore Committee and a '49 L bore Committee. It's true, the M bores are awesome and easy to play, but they do get tight on louder gigs. For small group stuff, I liked the M bore better. (purely personal preference... Miles and Chet would certainly have had the opposite opinion)

BUT...
It's years later, and I still own the L bore. The reputation may indeed be overblown, but the horn produces a truly incredible fat sound that's unlike anything else I've played. And believe me, I searched for a long time for something comparable. (A Lawler came the closest.)

Ultimately, I found the L bore a bit harder (but not so much as to be impossible) to get around on at the end of the gig, but the sound made it worth it. It just requires a bit more pacing to pay off.

-m

[jonalan]