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_TrumpeT_
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Joined: 14 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: highest note on different trumpets |
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| Are your highest notes on different trumpets (ie Bb, C, D, Eb, etc) the same concert pitch wise? |
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tommy t.
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Joined: 01 Mar 2002
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Location: Wasatch Mountains
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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This begs for a definition of "highest note." Counting down from the top, I keep tract of the highest note I can squeek at an identifiable pitch; the highest note to which I can run a scale when everything is just right; the highest note to which I can run a scale at the end of an evening; the highest note which I am willing to play in public in an improvised setting when I can chose whether to go for it or not and where intonation is just a case of more or less tension (like on a 9th at the end of a piece); and the highest note which I am willing to play in public from written music in a setting where it must hit, cleanly and in tune.
Depending on the "highest note" in question, the highest horn differs for me. The concert pitch for the different "highest notes" on my variously keyed trumpets are not the same for me. I attribute the differences in part to significantly different designs among the instruments and in part to the amount of time that I practice on each. (And of, course, if the same mouthpiece is not used on each horn, I think that mouthpiece variation is even more important.)
I could play higher for longer and with greater accuracy on my very nice, reverse lead pipe, Bach D/Eb than I could on my Selmer Signet picc and I sold the picc because there were simply no situations in which I would use it instead of the D/Eb. The difference was the difference between a good pro horn and a fairly poor intermediate substitute.
If I want to spike the double octave in a big band chart, my Bb (a WT with the J1 tuning slide) is always my choice.
Tommy T.
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Actually, I hate music. I just do this for the money. |
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nextbrassguy
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Joined: 21 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting question.
| tommy t. wrote: | | (T)he highest note which I am willing to play in public from written music in a setting where it must hit, cleanly and in tune. |
This is the only defintion I really like. Using this one, my highest notes on my Bb Strad, my Yamaha C, and my Couesnon D, are all within a single step of each other. On my Yamaha picc, I can go about a minor third higher than I can on the bigger horns. |
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John Mohan
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
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Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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I think my extreme upper register limit is about the same on all horns.
Playing baroque and similar style music on a pic is more secure for me - the increased intervals between the same-fingered notes make for safer and more secure playing.
Sincerely,
John Mohan |
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tommy t.
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Joined: 01 Mar 2002
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Location: Wasatch Mountains
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| John Mohan wrote: | | I think my extreme upper register limit is about the same on all horns. |
I'm not at all surprised by that, John. Your status as a trumpet player with outstanding teachers, wide experience in the U.S. and abroad, and familiarity with a wide variety of pro quality horns means that you are reaching the limits of what can be done.
People like me who suffered with inadequate teachers, limited experience and access to relatively few horns in a life time, probably experience a lot more variation than you do. We are always reading that Maynard could play the triple octave on an Army bugle or that Maurice would sound like Maurice on a student cornet.
| Quote: | | Playing baroque and similar style music on a pic is more secure for me - the increased intervals between the same-fingered notes make for safer and more secure playing. |
There's a good example. That's why I bought a picc -- people said it would give me no more range but would be more secure. But, I was working so hard to play that stuff that I never reached the "safety" question.
By the way, John, I, as an informed and experienced life long trumpet player but one well below the level required to make a living on the horn, always appreciate your input on these fora, even when your views sometimes generate controversy.
Tommy T.
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UsedBits
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
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Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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My 'highest note', concert pitch wise, is about the same across all of my trumpets. That said, it is much easier to hit the Eb trumpet's high C, the equivalent of F above high C on the Bb trumpet. For example, I would never attempt tp play the Doc Severinsen version of the last two notes of the Hummel up two octaves (the F above high C) on my Bb, yet I do it regularly (the high C) when playing it on the Eb. The risk of missing it on the Bb is too great.
My range on the piccolo is also no higher than on my Bb. The difference is, again, greater ease of playing in the high register, greater probability of hitting the intended notes, and the ability to more easily 'cheat' out notes higher than one's predictable performance range.
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brianwhitehead
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Joined: 16 Dec 2005
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Location: West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: |
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No, I get a slight advantage when using the higher pitched trumpets. I find the range to which I am happy to play in public is approx:
Bb trumpet: concert C
C trumpet: concert C#
Eb trumpet: concert D
Bb piccolo: concert Eb
Wish it was higher, but there you go! |
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Voltrane
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Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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Location: Paris (France)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Tommy t,
even if it not exactly the subject of this thread, could you please tell me what make you think that SELMER signet Piccolo is "a fairly poor intermediate substitute"?
I own a 1981 Selmer Paris Piccolo (not sure it is a Signet) and find it difficult to play (Intonation, resistance. To get a good sound I must use a large WICKS 1X mp). I do not know if it is me...or the horn. That is why your opinion interest me. Have you try other piccolo like Schilke or Blackburn to compare?
Thanks a lot
Voltrane |
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tommy t.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Voltrane wrote: | Tommy t,
even if it not exactly the subject of this thread, could you please tell me what make you think that SELMER signet Piccolo is "a fairly poor intermediate substitute"?
I own a 1981 Selmer Paris Piccolo (not sure it is a Signet) and find it difficult to play (Intonation, resistance. To get a good sound I must use a large WICKS 1X mp). I do not know if it is me...or the horn. That is why your opinion interest me. Have you try other piccolo like Schilke or Blackburn to compare?
Thanks a lot
Voltrane |
Well, the Signet was Selmer's second line picc. It is exactly the same shape as the professional instrument but has no engraving. If yours is marked "Selmer Paris", it is not a Signet and if fact is one of the better piccs when equipped with a Blackburn or other good aftermarket leadpipe.
The following is just my opinion, based on fairly limited experience with the instrument. First, I think that all piccs have more resistance than a normal C or Bb. One advantage of the resistance is that you can give it a good, firm, well-supported blow and feel rather secure without overpowering a few strings and an oboe or two in the Brandenburg. The big disadvantage is that blowing differently (in this case, because of the resistance) presents a different set of intonation problems to cope with. Those of us who only play the thing once a year for a Messiah don't play enough to get familiar with the instrument. Second, even Maurice Andre sounds different on the picc than on a larger horn. I have heard second-tier professional orchestras (the National at Kennedy Center, for example) feature a picc player whose timbre was just plain painful. Again, lack of practise and certain amount of overreaching with respect to the literature always meant that I was fighting the horn and could not get out of it what it might have been capable of producing.
I found that anything I was willing to play in public, I could play on the D with greater ease and much better sound. That includes the Messiah, the "Purcell" Voluntary, the two things most requested of me.
There are plenty of pros on this forum that should jump in here and give you general advice on piccs and how to get the most out of them.
Tommy T.
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