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piston vs. rotary oil



 
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aceswildtru
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Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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Location: Bluffton, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:31 am    Post subject: piston vs. rotary oil Reply with quote

Is there any difference between the two, or are the companies that make this stuff just trying to capitalize on those that don't know any better? Is there really a difference between piston valve oil and rotary valve oil?

-Travis
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for not having noticed your post any sooner.
Yes there certainly are differences between oils, Hetman for instance has special oils for almost every moving part of any kind of (rotary) brass instrument. In general, rotary valve oil is thinner than piston valve oil, but thin piston valve oil like "Fast" can be used perfectly well on rotary valved instruments. The actual rotaries need thin oil, but all the other moving parts that make the rotary turn, need a slightly thicker "key" type of oil (called "spindle oil"). I know it all seems to be a lot of nonsense, but you'll notice that the right oil for the right purpose lasts a lot longer and is far more reliable. Which brand to use? That's all a matter of taste. I can't deny that even IMHO it's all exagerated a bit.
The price of some of these oils is really like that of fluid gold .

Best regards, MvW.
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Don Herman rev2
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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My son plays French horn and I can verify what Maarten said. He has some Fast somebody left in the case (it's a school horn) as well as his own rotor oil. The rotor oil is thinner and works better on the rotors, but Fast and normal slide grease works everywhere else. He did put some Fast on the rotors once, and they didn't work quite as well.

Ditto the "gold" comment, too...

FWIWFM - Don
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gchun
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was told that rotory oil was meant for use with brass valves(rotors) in brass casings. Pistons valves are usually monel valves in brass casings. A repairman suggested I try using rotor oil on an oli Cousnon flugel with extremely worn out valves. However, I didn't really notice a functional difference between that and regular valve oil.

Garry
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gchun wrote:
A repairman suggested...using rotor oil.....on extremely worn out valves.

In that case I use very thick oil (Holton key oil!) to make the valves work quietly and to make them tighter. But I am speaking about an instrument from 1880 that has really extremely worn-out rotary valves. Please don't do this in any other case! Hetman has rotary oil for tight/new rotary valves and oil for older, but not worn-out, rotaries.
The best spindle oil IMO comes from Yamaha, but the price is absurd for such a tiny bottle: $10 for just 8ml.
Yes, that's exactly $1250 for a litre of oil!
If you'd buy 3 litres of it, Yamaha should give you a free custom class rotary trumpet...

Maarten.
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JohnCage
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Joined: 18 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If choosing Hetman, which nos. should I take?
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnCage wrote:
If choosing Hetman, which nos. should I take?

Make your choice here: http://www.hetman.com/products.html
I think that, at some point by the end of the nineties, they changed the numbering and added some new products, so if you happen to have or see older bottles they can have the older numbering. (I think to remember that rotory oil used to be "7", now it is "11" and "12)
I also use Holton (cheaper) rotory oil for tight/new instruments, but to my experience Hetman "11" is great for that purpose also and lasts a bit longer.
Make sure to oil ALL the moving parts of the rotary valve trumpet, before stowing it away for a longer period of time! A completely dry and stuck rotary valve trumpet is far more difficult to get to working well, than a piston valve instrument.

Yours, Maarten.

P.S.: According to the site Joseph Hetman even made (still makes?) rotary trumpets with his "Musikwerks" company, played in the orchestras of New York, San Francisco and Seattle .
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