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"I only practice on the weekends." ok...



 
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trumpet_bob_silver
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:42 am    Post subject: "I only practice on the weekends." ok... Reply with quote

I had a student say this to me during the schoolyear. I explained that daily practice is necessary of course.

But then what? If the student sticks with their own philosophy, I wasn't quite sure how to handle it.

Since it's public school, I had to keep teaching him. We went through the same ideas every week. He made a little progress. Basically I was practicing for him during the lessons.

What would you have done?
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Andiroo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell him to keep a log of what he has practised on each day. Tell him that he needs his parents signatures to verify he has done that much practise. Write home telling his parents about it, saying that if he fails to do 90mins practise in a week that you will have to give his teaching slot to someone who is willing to spend time and is more dedicated and wants to learn the trumpet.
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drboogenbroom
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this in a studio setting or in classroom instruction?

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ejaime23
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talk to his parents about it, if they're paying for it they're more likely to get on him about practicing. I've had to drop students like this before and I've always told the parents that I'm not going to take their money if their kid isn't going to practice, but I'll be glad to take him in once he's less busy and can practice more, I've never had a bad reaction to that.
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Umyoguy
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: "I only practice on the weekends." ok... Reply with quote

trumpet_bob_silver wrote:

What would you have done?


Make him practice Db major for a half hour while I watched.

Jon
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Luke6335J
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that Db major idea
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TheIrishBuddah
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find Gb major to be much more difficult than Db major.
Best of luck with your student. Defenatly get the parents involved though that's never a bad idea.
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ken_fung
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may be a very difficult job to get such a student motivated.....I would try various stuff to see if I can tempt him to play more, just for fun.

I would see if the parents are willing to work together, I would suggest they ask the son to play them a personal mini-concert at home during the week. Or just ask the kid to play something for their entertainment, whatever, just give a reason for the sone to play a little during the weekdays. Ask the school music teacher to have the student play in front of the class sometimes may also work.

Once, I have made up some funny lyrics for a piece I taught (a simple tune in A Tune A Day). The student was so amused that he kept playing the song over and over again, and that was the point he got very much better.

I have also initiated a competition among a class to see who could play the loudest and longest. It made them play long notes for 3,4 weeks!

Every student is different, can't tell what will work. But I will not hesitate to try anything to make it fun for the kid. Once you "break the ice", he may find playing the trumpet a very rewarding experience. Once he gets better, it will be more fun for him, hopfully.
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Bobby Thorp
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find that kids like to play/practice if they have someone or something to play with. With beginning students, I always give them a play-along cd/book of something that they like. Also, I give them some things on cd that I want them to hear. Kids sometimes learn faster if they are listening and experimenting with sound emulation on their own. I think it's always best to let kids have fun and experiment with the horn at a young age. To many people jump right into regimented practice routines. A beginning student doesn't need to buy an Arban and be shedding Clarke. They just want to have fun. As they get older and feel the need to accomplish greater goals on their instruments, that's when they will work towards structured detail oriented practice.

Also, some kids just aren't into music as much as we as teachers would like them to be. They may develop an appreciation for it in later years but for now as a young beginner they are just happy playing the Power Ranger Theme Song. It's ok! It's also ok if they decide that they would rather not play the instrument and would rather play baseball. I think it is important for us as teachers to realize that it is ok for kids to have other interests. Go ahead and teach the best way you know how, but don't be hurt if they don't want to play the instrument. It may be a phase, it may not... What do you guys think?

My teacher in junior high pretty much gave up on me when all I would do is try to play the horn upside-down and make fart noises. I think it was an important step in my playing development...
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bandman322
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be honest -- if he is able to keep up with his work practicing two days per week, and band is simply looked upon as an enrichment course for him, then what is the problem?

I have a few students who can play circles around the other kids with very little practice, and I have others who need to practice their tail-ends off to keep up with the 18th chair clarinet player. Each of us has different reasons for studying music, and for many students it is simply for fun.

As an adult, you have a job. If your boss assigned you a work load that you could complete 100% in 2 days per week, and then was upset because it didn't take you 5 days to complete those tasks. He then says that he is going to increase your work load, and give you 2 ½ times the work load he gives everyone else, but your pay will not increase one cent. This way you work all 5 days, and he gets credit because his department is getting more work done with no more pay. You however, are now working twice as hard as anyone else, and you probably resent it. Chances are, sooner or later you will quit and move on to another job.

How would you feel if your student says; “I play my lessons well, and I only practice two days per week. I play my parts in band well and never take rehearsal time away from the group via my individual problems. I play better than 50% of the kids in the band. So tell me Prof, -- what is the problem?”

Again, As a long time teacher I understand well what you are asking, but I wonder how many teachers take into account why many kids joined the band?
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trumpetmike
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet_bob_silver wrote:
I had a student say this to me during the schoolyear. I explained that daily practice is necessary of course.

But then what? If the student sticks with their own philosophy, I wasn't quite sure how to handle it.

Since it's public school, I had to keep teaching him. We went through the same ideas every week. He made a little progress. Basically I was practicing for him during the lessons.

What would you have done?


How old is the student?
Is there a reason behind this?
I have taught a number of students who just don't have the time available for daily practice (they are involved with various other activities that take up the majority of their life) it is a case of making the most of the time that they are able to practice. Working with them to produce concentrated practice routines (if they are old enough to comprehend these) is better than giving them a daily routine that they might not be able to achieve. Work with them to find what is possible, don't assume that they can find enough time during every day to achieve what you might wish in an ideal world.

The fact that they are practising at weekends is surely a sign that they do want to practise? The weekend is a time which is very easy to fill up with extra curricular activities and yet they are doing some practising.

ken_fung wrote:
It may be a very difficult job to get such a student motivated.....I would try various stuff to see if I can tempt him to play more, just for fun.
///
Or just ask the kid to play something for their entertainment, whatever, just give a reason for the sone to play a little during the weekdays.

Great suggestion - forget Arban, forget Clarke - if someone is already having motivational problems these are the last books that anyone should inflict upon their students - give them some music that is FUN to play - whatever floats their boat - if they like film music, ge them playing some, if they like computer games, get them trying to play the themes from their favourites (some of the music from computer games is great fun to play).

Quote:
Once, I have made up some funny lyrics for a piece I taught (a simple tune in A Tune A Day). The student was so amused that he kept playing the song over and over again, and that was the point he got very much better.

Just remember not to make the new lyrics too rude

Quote:
I have also initiated a competition among a class to see who could play the loudest and longest. It made them play long notes for 3,4 weeks!

The longest I can manage is about a minute, how did you get yours playing for 3-4 WEEKS

Bobby Thorp wrote:
My teacher in junior high pretty much gave up on me when all I would do is try to play the horn upside-down and make fart noises. I think it was an important step in my playing development...


It seems to have worked for at least one trumpeter - Trent plays a mean upside down trumpet

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_TrumpeT_
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried getting them to listen to some recordings (or even better, attend concerts)? That certainly inspired me to practise. I'll never forget the moment when I first heard Maurice Andre play the Haydn concerto (on recording). I didn't even feel worthy enough to listen.
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trumpet_bob_silver
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is public school teaching. I had no choice. He had lessons with me.

There was more with the situation that I was frustrated with -- between the school and me. I never called the parents since it was such a pain to get the information from the office (get to the office secretary, get the ok, get the right parent to talk to, on and on). I don't think it crossed my mind with everything going on.

Lessons were free to him and his parents. An offerring of the public school system. I keep finding people don't take them anywhere nearly as serious as when they have to pay for the same thing. Surprise, surprise, I know.

The parent chinzed on the trumpet so I didn't think they were extremely serious.


Him keeping a log wouldn't work. It was enough of an effort for him to bring the trumpet home and back to school. I never had luck with parent signatures.

Thanks for the ideas though. I don't mean to shoot them down. I was just thinking about the situation.


What did several times was go through part of MY routine. I figured it would benefit him since he didn't practice much. It probably wouldn't have a huge affect if it was a little on the dry side. I figured it was good just have him playing as much as possible during the lesson -- We reviewed basic ideas while we did that -- breathing, posture, embouchure. I felt like it was a little like he wasted my own personal time or I could have used it more effectively, so went with doing something that would benefit me too. I don't think that was a bad idea either.


I wonder how much effort to spend on just one student. I tried more fun stuff, but he didn't have much range, so... I was never quite sure what to do.

I did hear progress with the kid -- the long term every few months. Range up, tone better.


So I don't know. I just remembered it the other day. I don't know how much extra effort to spend on one student, although I suppose anything I do for one can be transferred easily to others in a similar situation.

As a teacher, I still struggle with how to make it fun, or what that means exactly. I think there's a working type of fun and making progress is fun, but it's not always "rollercoaster" easy fun.



He didn't make a whole lot of progress. He was not playing the lessons well at all. We were always starting over -- Basic things like fingerings, getting the embouchure.



This is a junior high kid. The band program was crappy. We did things more like a quartet than a full band. They didn't have the basics down so I got them on the method book.

The student was in junior high. Sports season started and that was it for any practicing. I could tell he had some interest and he tried but he got extremely frustrated by his lack of progress -- It was a struggle just to play through one line, first five notes were a challenge.

No Arban, no Clarke. I wouldn't do that. The parents wouldn't buy the book either I think.
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textr
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a student last year that not only did not practice, but he was a smart ass. He was one of the kids that thinks he knows everything. I spoke with the director(a lady) and she wanted me to keep teaching
him ,well ,after two more lessons with the same attitiude, I told the director that I would no longer teach him, she wanted me to tell the parent, which I was more than happy to do . That was the student's last lesson. The way I see it , I am a trumpet teacher , not an ass't principal , not a counselor, but a trumpet teacher . If the kid has a smart ass attitude, it is not my job to put up with it . And besides , after a LONG day I got to go home a half hour earlier.


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Sully2302
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Slossberg
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been given a public school teaching circuit for ten weeks while the regular guy is on leave. A couple of amazing jewels, but mostly "strugglers", as their regular teacher confided to me.

This one girl told me that she didn't want to play the trumpet, and that she thought she was getting a saxophone. She's been playing about 14 weeks and brings me her band parts for me to help her with, but it takes about ten minutes of coaxing to get her to play a second line G.

The first lesson she told me she only "practiced" once a week when it was time for band, and since urging her to put more in she has upped that to an extra two minutes (in the whole week)

Still struggeling to play a G, I'd rather be helping a kid to play an etude or something, but this for my teaching ability is a real challenge. I can't upset the system too much cause I'm really just a care taker teacher. I've taken in all your advice for Bob_silver, which does help, but have any of you ever tried to instruct a raw beginner who cant play a middle G, how to get the note? For me it's immensely challenging.
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guo2
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey slossberg,
as you know, development on any instrument requires practice. this girl only practices one day a week? well thats the reason her range is at a 2nd line G. what i'd do is if she is not on a beginner's method book, get her on one. you need to make her interested enough to practice. and in the lessons, call and response works really well. kids are smart, they'll be able to figure out what sounds good and what doesn't.

if you can though, i'd see if you can switch her to saxaphone. its going to be a huge pain for both of you. you wont be happy if she doesn't practice and she wont be happy that shes forced to play a different instrument.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enforcement of the practice rule is up to the parents. This must be made clear. Parents who don't want to make Johnny practice are negligent in their duties. They make the rules and they enforce them, everything from bathing, to TV, homework, etc... Practicing is no different.

Teachers do much more than present lessons. We are psychologists, counselors, motivators, as well.

Require the student to create a practice schedule. Tell the parents in no uncertain terms that it is their responsibility to enforce that schedule.

Just because a student is keeping up with only minimal practice time is no excuse. The benefits of learning an instrument is not measured by the student's success. The real benefit comes from the discipline, self-motivation, and realization of goals. This is something that is not taught in other areas, but is the real key to a student's succes in all areas of life.
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Trumpeter58
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a very different situation, year before last I had a beginning trumpet student tell me that his mother wouldn't let him practice at home . Of course, I asked why, and he told me they live in an apartment complex where she doesn't want to have to deal with compaints from occupants of adjoining apartments. By happenstance his mother is an elementary school teacher at the Christian school where he attends, so I visited her before class began one morning and told her that if she wanted him to progress she should consider purchasing him either a practice mute or a Silent Brass system, and discussed with her the pricing and benefits of each. I haven't asked whether she did either or both, but from his performance the couple of times last year when he was in intermediate band and we combined them on a few arrangments with the advanced band, I know he was practicing somehow, somewhere. If he continues band I expect to see him sitting 2nd or 3rd chair next week in advanced band.
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Trumpeter58
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a very different situation, year before last I had a beginning trumpet student tell me that his mother wouldn't let him practice at home . Of course, I asked why, and he told me they live in an apartment complex where she doesn't want to have to deal with compaints from occupants of adjoining apartments. By happenstance his mother is an elementary school teacher at the Christian school where he attends, so I visited her before class began one morning and told her that if she wanted him to progress she should consider purchasing him either a practice mute or a Silent Brass system, and discussed with her the pricing and benefits of each. I haven't asked whether she did either or both, but from his performance the couple of times last year when he was in intermediate band and we combined them on a few arrangments with the advanced band, I know he was practicing somehow, somewhere. If he continues band I expect to see him sitting 2nd or 3rd chair next week in advanced band.
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