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Jupiter 846RL or Yamaha 631/731 Flugelhorn?


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Archie Sawyer
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject: Jupiter 846RL or Yamaha 631/731 Flugelhorn? Reply with quote

If you had a chance at purchasing a New Jupiter 846RL Flugelhorn which comes with a trigger, at a reduced price or a Used Yamaha 631 or 731 Flugelhorn, without trigger, at the same price as the new Jupiter, which would you choose? Please, I need your opinions.


Archie
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plankowner110
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamaha 631/731. Nice instruments.
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_dcstep
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They all play well, so you can't go too far wrong. My Yamaha is heavier than the Jupiters I've played and seems to have a slightly darker tone. The response is much the same. A trigger is nice, but not essential.

Obviously, I chose the Yamaha, but I have friends that chose the Jupiter.

Think of this, a used Yamaha at $700 to $800 will still be worth that five years from now, IF you take care of it. The Jupiter will drop down to the $500 range or less. No matter what, we're not talking big money here.

Dave
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Archie Sawyer
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,
Do you know what your friends liked about their Jupiter Flugels over the Yamaha? Can you tell me what you liked about your Yamaha over the Jupiter? I'm looking for a light Flugel tone. Do you know if the intonation is about the same between the two brands? Are the upper registers stuffy at all?


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batsomh
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I STRONGLY disagree with that last guy!!!

You may not think a trigger is essential, but you WILL regret it later! Several of my pals at college bought flugels without triggers and they were very sorry they did not spring for triggers.

Granted, the Yammies are nice horns, better than Jupiters, but they don't go on sale used too often, and the competition for them is fierce, so the price might not be that much less than a used one. I've seen a used Yamaha go for $1200 or more on e-bay.

Honestly, I chose my Jupiter over the Yamaha because, for me, the differences were very slight and did not justify spending that much more for the Yammie. Plus, it was not looking good for finding a used Yamaha anytime soon.

There's my rant.[/quote]
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_dcstep
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Archway wrote:
Dave,
Do you know what your friends liked about their Jupiter Flugels over the Yamaha? PriceCan you tell me what you liked about your Yamaha over the Jupiter? I bought mine used from a pro-player friend, so it was convenient, priced right and a great player. I didn't compare it to the Jupiter I'm looking for a light Flugel tone. Do you know if the intonation is about the same between the two brands? Are the upper registers stuffy at all? They have basically the same tone and blow. I've read that the Jupiter is a copy of the Yamaha. Like I said earlier, my Yamaha is heavier than my friend's Jupiter and seem slightly warmer in tone to me. They're all lighter in tone than, say a kanstul Signature, but there are lighter flugels available, like the Yamaha Shew, for instance. For the money, they're all great horns.

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_dcstep
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

batsomh, we're talking about paying the same price for a Yamaha vs. the Jupiter. Re-read the opening post of the thread. If you can have a "better" (your word) horn for the same price, then wouldn't you chose the "better" horn?

Dave
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batsomh
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am just mentioning the fact that, in my experiences, finding a used Yamaha for the same price as a Jupiter is slim to none. I do realize what the topic is, but I feel that is also worth mentioning.

Also, I forgot this this earlier, if you do like Yamahas better than Jupiters, you should serously consider the Bobby Shew model. It is their top of the line model and triggers come standard on them.

Honestly, I think ALL flugels should come standard with triggers, but so it goes...
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mike ansberry
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played Yamaha trumpets for about 10 years. I have gotten to the point that I just HATE Yammie valves. I have quite a few friends who play Yammies and they all have valve problems. I played both the Jupiter and Yamaha flugels last summer. I thought the 846RL Jupiter was an awesome horn. It was very resonant sounding and had a very even scale. (for a flugel) A friend of mine, Jim Manley is a full time pro in St. Louis. He got a Jupiter about a year ago and is quite happy with it. I didn't buy it because I like a really dark sound. Every flugel I played last summer was too bright to suit me.
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Xenoman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Jupiter 846RL or Yamaha 631/731 Flugelhorn? Reply with quote

Archway wrote:
If you had a chance at purchasing a New Jupiter 846RL Flugelhorn which comes with a trigger, at a reduced price or a Used Yamaha 631 or 731 Flugelhorn, without trigger, at the same price as the new Jupiter, which would you choose? Please, I need your opinions.


Archie


A few years ago I had a Jupiter 846RL and Yamaha 731. Played side by side the Yamaha was superior in terms of sound, ease of play and construction. I had a more experienced player try both and he agreed. At the same time a well respected pro in the area loves his Jupiter and sounds fantastic on it. You certainly won't get a new flugelhorn for a better price than the Jupiter.

Both are great horns and it will ultimately boil down to what works for you.
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hiandlo
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had my Jupiter RL flugelhorn for about 3 years and I cannot find anything wrong with it (except maybe that the build and finishing of the horn is not up to par with some of the more expensive flugels)......but for the price you cannot beat it. My previous flugelhorn was a Couesnon and granted.......I missed it after selling it, but the Jupiter, although not as dark sounding as the Couesnon still has the nice dark sound I was after. I have never experienced any valve problems. One thing I do not like is the Amado type water keys.....I still like the lever type. I use a Stork Studio Master 6 mouthpiece and that helps produce a nice mellow tone and am still able to attain the higher register with it, which I do sparingly. The only other flugelhorn that really impressed me was the Arturo Sandoval LeBlanc flugel with the copper bell. Of course the LeBlanc is over twice the money. As far as the trigger is concerned, I think it is necessary for intonation on certain notes.
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Archie Sawyer
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thing about the Jupiter valves on the 846RL. Apparently, they are now using Nickel Silver valves. I think that could be really nice. I read somewhere in a past posting, that there was a guy who would replace the Monel valves with nickel silver valves. I wonder if Jupiter might have listened to any issues that people may have had with there valves in the past. Although, I have certainly heard enough positive comments about their previous Monel valves made in recent years.


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Xenoman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a blog post from a guy who owned a Jupiter flugelhorn. He apparently had some problems with the valves. Read the main thread and then click the other links within...

http://www.iwasdoingallright.com/jazz_blog/102/
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rebelatheart
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest also considering the B&S Challenger flugel in that price range. I tried it side by side with the Jupiter and a used 731 and much prefered it to either one of those. It played more open, valves were great, it had a trigger AND a vented third valve, intonation was very good, and I was more impressed with it's build quality than the Jupiter's. The same horn is sold rebadged by a couple of other retailers. Sam Ash sells it as their "Jean Baptist" and WWBW I believe sells it as the Allora.
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bivouac
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My store sells some B&S stuff under accent. But they come with B&S mpc's.
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batsomh
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen that thread about the Jupiter's valves before. Granted, it does not reflect favorably upon them, but it was mentioned earler that now Jupiters come standard with nickel valve plating. Also, I have tried many different Jupiters, both new and used, and have not found any valve problems among them. My guess is that horn was the 1% of them that had a serious problem.
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Archie Sawyer
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xenoman wrote:
Quote:
Here is a blog post from a guy who owned a Jupiter flugelhorn. He apparently had some problems with the valves. Read the main thread and then click the other links within...


I read it. Apparently he had problems and sent it in to Jupiter at an Austin, TX plant (I didn't even realize there was a Jupiter plant there). According to him, they fixed the problem and he never had any issues with the valves again. He seemed to indicate that they may have replaced the Monel valves with Nickel Silver. At any rate, it sounds like the problem was solved.

So, if they are in fact using the Nickel Silver valves as earlier stated in my prior post, it sounds like it may be a winning combination.

I believe I may go ahead and give the Jupiter a try. My only concerns, assuming the valves work well, would be overall intonation and that the upper register up to high C or D not feel too stuffy.


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thedevilisbad
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bivouac wrote:
My store sells some B&S stuff under accent. But they come with B&S mpc's.


Accent is made by B and S?
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batsomh
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as stuffiness in the upper register, the thing to remember is that the Jupiter is a small-bore flugelhorn. This means that the leadpipe is not as big around as a regular trumpet leadpipe. Because of this, it is very easy to over blow the horn, especially with notes above the staff. The biggest way to alleviate this problem is to use breath control and train yourself not to blow so hard into the horn. (I know I'm talking as if you already have the horn, but it was good advice for me when I got mine)

Also, a side note: if you do decide on the Jupiter, remember that it may not come with a mouthpiece, depending on who you order it from. Even if a mouthpiece is provided, it might not be one you particularly like, so you might want to invest in a higher-quality mouthpiece anyway. I was MAD AS CRAP when mine arrived and there was no mouthpiece provided... always gotta read the fine print.
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hotorangetrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YAMAHA 731 all the way.... 631 is okay too, but the 731 has tremendous flexibility.
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