Need help/suggestions picking first flug. Thanks

_Daff · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Posts: 1431

Guys, until recently, I've never spent any significant amount of time on a flug, but have recently been inflicted with the addiction.

Anyway, I have no clue where to start. Played a friend's Kanstul 1525. The Eb was a bit squirrely, but it seemed like a nice horn. Again, without anything to compare it to, I have no clue what to look for.

Others have recommended:

Conn Vintage One
Kanstul Custom Class
Shew
Eclipse

Due to its price only, I'm leaning away from the Eclipse because I'd rather stick with a mainstream horn in case this becomes a passing affair with me.

Given that, would you start off with a used, lesser, yet respected model for the honeymoon, then later step up to a higher end unit, or just go for one of the top models? Any suggestions in either category would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I have no clue about all the features, simply played one for 30-45 minutes, thoroughly enjoying myself and realized I need to get one.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Victor Lopez · Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:03 am Post subject:

I love my Conn Vintage One trumpet, but the flugel just didn't do it for me. I'm sure you could find some nice flugles by kanstul and taylor trumpets for a higher price, but I like the Arturo Sandoval model by Holton/Leblanc.
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Trumpeter58 · Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:36 am Post subject:

In June 2006, based upon good experiences with the Olds trumpet that I began my comeback on, I ordered an Olds NF13MRT flugel. On advice from an experienced flugelist who frequents the TH boards I have been patient in acclimating to the diffrences between playing trumpet and flugel. One thing that Dan O. touched upon that I have not experienced with the Olds NF13MRT is intonation problems with notes using 1st and/or 3rd valves. Using the 3FL mpc that came with the horn it has a beautiful, almost velvety tone, such that the pianist at my church asked me if it was a cross between a trumpet and a french horn. Using my Monette B4S, it to me it sounds very "Chuck Mangione-ish".

I know this horn isn't established as a "favorite", and I'm sure the other brands that you mentioned are all great, each in its own respect. I just think that while you're shopping it would be a good idea to give the Olds pro model flugel some consideration. I think you would be pleasantly surprised at what the Olds NF13MRT offers for the money.
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batsomh · Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:12 am Post subject:

The Shew is the best flugel I have played on the current market. How much are you willing to spend?

Shews usually go for about $1200 used and $1700 new.

I would still HIGHLY recommend you go to a music shop and try out as many different brands as you can, even the "lower" ones like Jupiter and Blessing; you never know how good it might be! I chose my Jupiter over the Shew because the differences were only slight for me and I could not justify spending twice the money for it.

Oh and one last note: if/when you do get a flugel, GET ONE WITH A TRIGGER!!! Seriously, even if you think it's not a big issue, you WILL regret it later on... as a bunch of my classmates at college have.
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patdublc · Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:20 am Post subject:

I play a Kanstul & think it is great. IMO, your choice in flugels may depend on whether you intend to be an occasional doubler or get more serious about playing flugel. I think the Shew is the perfect horn for the doubler because it feels very easy to switch back and forth.

Getzen still makes a very nice horn. I also recently played a used Blessing 4-valve that played like a dream. A new Blessing is very reasonable.

Play a bunch of them - you'll probably figure out pretty quickly which one feels and works best for you.
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plp · Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:37 am Post subject:

I have a Yamaha 2310 that is really more a doubler's flugel, for those who play more trumpet than anything else. The good news is, it is an easy transition and does not seem plagued with all the intonation issues so many comment on. The bad news is, the sound is just kind of like a really dark trumpet. It does get a richer sound, but will get very bright no matter what mouthpiece I use (yes, even with a Wick!!) when you step on the volume.

If you decide to go the entry level route, this is a good one for that. Many here have posted about the Jupiters, and the money would be about the same for new, so you would want to check that out as well.

Good luck!

nextbrassguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Posts: 1428

_Daff · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Posts: 1431

Just chiming in to thank you all for your input so far.

You guys are the bomb!

_dcstep · Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject:

See? Clear as mud.

Lots of good and bad advice mixed in here. Just trust your instincts and don't overpay and you'll be ok.

Dave
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_Daff · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Posts: 1431

Guys, I found this GREAT article on the topic. http://www.dallasmusic.org/gearhead/Flugelhorn%20Guide.html
Thought I'd post it here for anyone else that stumbles into this thread.

Thanks again for your input.

(..... and Tom, when I ship that Eclipse to you, can I throw in a box of Swiss chocolates and the keys to the Bimmer?

)

.

mike ansberry · Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:45 am Post subject:

Before you buy a horn, try to get an opportunity to play a Getzen and a Jupiter 846RL. A lot of people overlook the Jupiter, but it is a really nice horn.
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trumper · Veteran Member Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 101

You might try the Conn 85F, if you can find one as it's no longer produced, or its clone the King 2020 which I understand is still in the Conn-Selmer lineup. Some 85F marketing/sales literature describes it as the precursor to the Vintage One. That's a bit of a stretch in my opinion but it's a solid flugel. Has 1st and 3rd valve triggers. Just another option to consider but I agree with several of the previous posts.
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wvtrumpet · Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject:

Being someone that only plays a flugel a few times a month on big band jobs, I personally opted to buy a Blessing. I own the Blessing Rose Bell Model with the trigger. I find it to meet my needs nicely. I do want to preface things with the fact that you will need to purchase a quality mouthpiece to make this flugel a bit more stable. Intonation can be somewhat quirky, but none the less for my needs it mets them.....
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KingSilverSonic · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:56 am Post subject:

I am in the early stages of considering a flugelhorn. I have done as much research as I can on the Lawler. Those who have played the Lawler give it pretty high marks. A little bit pricey, $1,950 in raw brass, but you get what you pay for.

A friend of mine is a pro player and he plays a used Jupiter that he is very satisfied with.
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mark schorah · Heavyweight Member Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 668

if you have the money then id have to say the eclipse, ive played lots of eclipse flugels and each ones been amazing. They are by far the most 'trumpet' friendly flugel ive ever played, i just picked one up and instantly had that sound id always wanted.

I just wish i had the money and was able to play flugel enough to warrent having one, it would spend to much time in a box and it would be a waste on the poor thing!!

Mark

Robert Rowe · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject:

Well ....

Some good advice here ... some not-so-good, also.

Where are you located? Get yourself to a large music store, hopefully with a varied selection of Fluegs ... and give 'em "a blow". (BTW -- there is also the "mouthpiece-factor" rearing it's ugly head, as well).

In the absence of a close music store with horns, try some horn-playing colleagues, and hit 'em up for a try on their axes.

That "Dallas GearHead" excerp is relevent.

I've "played 'em all", and am sticking with my vintage F. Besson (Paris). Most posters here have no clue what this horn does .... "Let them eat cake". -- (Marie Antoinette)

Robt
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Tom LeCompte · Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:10 am Post subject:

I am going to disagree with Mark Schorah.

First, I really really like the Eclipse. I wish I had one.

However, I wouldn't drop that much cash on a flugelhorn until I was quite certain of what I wanted. If it turned out I wanted a flugelhorn that has a very trumpet-like blow, a very tromboney sound, and could easily cut through a big band, the Eclipse would be a very poor fit.

_Daff · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Posts: 1431

Guys, thanks again for the tips.

Not sure I can justify popping for the Eclipse unless I was committed to playing it quite frequently. Played one at ITG Denver and they're nice, but the exchange rate just makes their ultimate price silly. The Brits are certainly proud of their sterling

, but on a level economic playing field, the Eclipse wouldn't check in at nearly double the price of the other top models. They're certainly very nice, perhaps the best, but in my mind as a hobbyist, not twice the value of top-liners.

Will take my time making the way through those with the best reputation. A friend has the Kanstul 1525, the unit that got me thinking about grabbing one for myself. I sounded like silk on that thing (masked all my flaws). Nice horn. Now have a Kanstul Custom Class to compare with it. At first blush, it plays more like a pregnant cornet compared to the 1525. Its bell is brass, whereas the 1525 is copper. Unfair to opine on these as it's not an apples-to-apples scenario. Would be interesting to compare these two, both with copper bells.

I'll experiment with the two Kanstuls, picking my favorite of the two, then mosey over to Kessler's to maybe borrow his Conn V One for a few days, etc., just taking things slowly. Hate to abruptly jump into a flug until the infatuation subsides a tad. I'm in that dangerous "ooh lah lah" mode, too soon to tell if it's a passing fancy.

_dcstep · Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:21 am Post subject:

If there's any way you can have a good selection of mpcs it's very critical on flugel. Not only can the shank requirements vary, but the backbore can be very influential. For instance, that V1 will work very well with a GR66FD, but with a GR66FL the attacks will not be as clear and the tone will not be as full. I think that mpc match is way more critical with flugel than with trumpet.

BTW, about half of us think that Custom Class flugel gives the most flugel-like tone of the Kanstuls and the 1525 sounds more like a trombone puppy.

I don't think it's the copper, but more the giant bell flare and leadpipe balance. I think that brass is the best flugel material, but that's just my personal preference. There are two clear camps on flugel sound.

Dave
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Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
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