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Salvationist "bandmaster" cornet


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kurisumasukeiki
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Joined: 03 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:11 pm    Post subject: Salvationist "bandmaster" cornet Reply with quote

Hello, I just today was given a cornet. On the bell, reading from top to bottom it says:

The Bandmaster
L.P.
Class A
27819
[salvation army logo]
Made by
Salvationist Publishing
&
Supplies. Ltd.
Judd st.
London

On the valve casing it repeats what I assume is the serial number, 27819

I did a search for Salvationist on this site and didn't find much, does anybody know anything about these horns?

Thank you very much, Sam
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laurie
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gday
Do a google search for Salvation army, or, I think, salvation army collector. One of these has a very good history of army instruments.
Sorry I cant give you the link, not at my computor at the moment.
Cheers
Laurie
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oldlou
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:55 am    Post subject: Salvationist instruments Reply with quote

During the days of their manufacture the Salvationist horns had a very high reputation. I have never owned one, but, I used to play one that my father owned. It was SUPERLATIVE !!!!!!!!!!


Go to Horn-U-Copia.com for a history and some pics.


OLDLOU>>
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petere
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I picked up one of these trumpets at a pawn shop back 8 years ago or so. It was a very good horn that I should have kept. It had a tuning slide slide lock on it, but best of all, it played great. I had it stripped and relaquered. I think my Bandmaster was made in Elkhart IN. petere
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chopissimo
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: Salvationist instruments Reply with quote

oldlou wrote:

Go to Horn-U-Copia.com for a history and some pics.


...or rather www.horn-u-copia.net
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kurisumasukeiki
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, all!

Well, through the salvation army collectibles site I got in touch with a man who told me that my horn was probably made in 1954-55, and he gave me the web address of someone who could give me the exact date it was made, and to whom it was shipped. (Wild, huh?)

So now I want to buy a cornet mouthpiece, get the thing restored, and start playing it! Any major do's or don'ts before I start this process?

Thanks very much for your help,
Sam

p.s., I went to the Horn-u-copia site and saw my horn all gussied up, beautiful!
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camelbrass
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure it's a 'low pitch' instrument.

Regards,

Trevor
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kurisumasukeiki
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, Trevor, actually, I think it's high pitch, but can be used for low pitch, because the tuning slide can be pulled out at both ends!

I just unfortunately f'd up the horn by trying to take the second valve out, and it got stuck, so I'd really like to take it to the Brasslab as soon as possible, my only question is, are there special precautions to take with an older horn such as this?

Thanks again,
Sam
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oldlou
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:55 am    Post subject: Salvationist cornet Reply with quote

For starters, if your 'new' cornet was made after about 1927 it is probably a low pitch horn. The double tuning slide is probably to lower the horn's tuning to the key of A, ( a very common thing with horns of that age ). In any event, all of the valve tuning slides must be pulled out to keep the intonation correct if the main tuning slide is pulled to a mark on the male portion of the slide.


Your statement about yours being an older horn makes me grin. Many of us on this forum regularly play our gigs on horns made long before yours, even with horns made before 1900.


Enjoy that fine old horn and be sure not to use a cup bowl mouthpiece. I just got a newly designed 'vee cup' mouthpiece with a very nice rounded rim from Getzen. I am enthralled with the tone it allows me to produce with 'my antiques'.


OLDLOU>>
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kurisumasukeiki
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldlou, thank you for your reply. I have a couple of questions.

First, do you think that I need to take it to a repairman who specializes in older instruments or not?

Second, if I'm not playing with a v-cup mouthpiece on my trumpet, is it possible I may find it difficult to switch back and forth between the v-shaped cornet mouthpiece and a bowl cup trumpet mouthpiece?

Thanks very much for your advice,
Sam
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dwindham
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have recently started playing on a cornet and haven't had trouble adjusting at all.

I'm using an old Connstellation 7BW and I also have a Curry 60M for my cornet.
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oldlou
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:02 am    Post subject: Salvationist cornet Reply with quote

kurisumasukeiki wrote:
Oldlou, thank you for your reply. I have a couple of questions.

First, do you think that I need to take it to a repairman who specializes in
older instruments or not?


Any competant brass instrument technician should be able to handle the repairs on your cornet.

Second, if I'm not playing with a v-cup mouthpiece on my trumpet, is it possible I may find it difficult to switch back and forth between the v-shaped cornet mouthpiece and a bowl cup trumpet mouthpiece?


If the rim size and shape are the same, or, nearly so to whatever trumpet mouthpiece that you are used to will work just fine. The deep vee cup will restrict your upper range a small bit for awhile, until you become accustomed to it.

Thanks very much for your advice,
Sam



OLDLOU>>
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abundrefo
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Salvationist Publishing & Supplies Cornet history:

From the website:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Antique-Musical-Instruments-2370/Cornet-1.htm

"Starting around 1884 the Salvation Army began as a dealer selling other makers’ brass instruments. They opened a repair shop in in 1889 at 96 Southwark St. By 1890, they started building instruments from parts purchased from other makers. In 1893, they brought out "Our Own Make" instruments, and became a full fledged maker.

From 1890 to 1896 the brass shop was located at 98, 100, and 102 Clerkenwell Rd., London. In 1896 they moved to 79, 81 Fortess Rd., London, until 1901. The address was stamped on the bell of these instrument. (Serial 5,049 comes from this period). In 1901 the SA opened a factory for instrument making in St. Albans. This factory was called the Campfield Musical Instrument Works.

Offerings for the student market included models including: Herald, Jubilee, Reliance, Endurance (French import) and Congress. Limited production models included: Special Congress, Festival, Fanfare and Deluxe. The primary student model was the “Gold Medal” which became the “Triumph”. The “Triumphonic” models were added in 1914, and continued in production until the factory closed.

The instruments were first made in high pitch. But they also made low pitch instruments at least as far back as 1926. They continued making high pitched instruments until 1964.

The St. Albans factory was in operation until 1972, when it was sold to Boosey and Hawkes. (Last instrument in 1972 was Serial# 34283). Boosey & Hawkes continued to make the top of the line, “Bandmaster” cornet and “Triumphonic” tenor horn until 1979 when no more Salvation Army instruments were made."
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lmf
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salvation Army Collectible Site

http://www.sacollectables.com/factory.html

William Scarlett is one of the SA experts on its horns. He used to be (and may still be with) the Chicago Symphony. Charming man to talk to.

Perhaps, he he will have information about your Bandmaster cornet. As a teenager and adult in The Salvation Army I always wanted one, but it never happened. Enjoy the one you have and be blessed.

I believe his email is listed in the article on the site given.

Best wishes,

Lloyd


Last edited by lmf on Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lmf
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurisumasukeiki wrote:
Oldlou, thank you for your reply. I have a couple of questions.

First, do you think that I need to take it to a repairman who specializes in older instruments or not?

Second, if I'm not playing with a v-cup mouthpiece on my trumpet, is it possible I may find it difficult to switch back and forth between the v-shaped cornet mouthpiece and a bowl cup trumpet mouthpiece?

Thanks very much for your advice,
Sam



Old Lou and Sam.

Old Lou is correct as to the V mouthpiece. The Bandmaster has a very smooth, lyrical quality when using the type of mouthpiece Old Lou recommends. You may have difficulty at first, but it will make the cornet sound much like it did for the Salvationist who played it. Some of those old mouthpieces looked like the "cookie cutter" mouthpieces which added to the tone which was sweet as sugar and as smooth as butter. For that cornet, you might find it will bring out the best sound.

Best wishes,

Lloyd
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurisumasukeiki wrote:
Hello, Trevor, actually, I think it's high pitch, but can be used for low pitch, because the tuning slide can be pulled out at both ends!...

The L.P. on the bell means it's a low pitch horn, which is good. I'm guessing the extra tunung slide length is used to pitch it in the key of A.
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DickGraysn
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurisumasukeiki wrote:
Well, through the salvation army collectibles site I got in touch with a man who told me that my horn was probably made in 1954-55, and he gave me the web address of someone who could give me the exact date it was made, and to whom it was shipped. (Wild, huh?)


Could you share this website with us.. My daughter just found a horn at a consignment shop and bought it for 24 dollars. The plating is in great shape, it plays great, only problem is the bell is bent from being droped stright on bell, so the support is detached. going to see if Mr. Rich Ita can do the repairs.

Bennie
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SalArmy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DickGraysn wrote:
kurisumasukeiki wrote:
Well, through the salvation army collectibles site I got in touch with a man who told me that my horn was probably made in 1954-55, and he gave me the web address of someone who could give me the exact date it was made, and to whom it was shipped. (Wild, huh?)


Could you share this website with us.. My daughter just found a horn at a consignment shop and bought it for 24 dollars. The plating is in great shape, it plays great, only problem is the bell is bent from being droped stright on bell, so the support is detached. going to see if Mr. Rich Ita can do the repairs.

Bennie


"The guy to email with your serial number is Gordon Taylor [Gordon.Taylor@salvationarmy.org.uk] "
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=9571.0

But that was from 2004, so I don't know if the email address is still valid.

"Volume 1 (1925-1961) includes instruments with the serial numbers 18361-29685
Volume 2 (1960-1969) includes instruments with the serial numbers 29686-33776"
http://www2.salvationarmy.org.uk/uki/www_uki_ihc.nsf/0/65E58F02EC0693398025756E0030B278/$file/The%20Musical%20Instrument%20Factory.doc

Additional information is found at

http://www.sacollectables.com/factory.html

http://www.heilsarmeemuseum-basel.ch/E/brassinstruments.php

I am no expert on vintage Salvation Army instruments.
But they have a sentimental place in my heart,
I love how they sound and look,
and I am proud to own one, a cornet.
I have made a special arrangement for it in my will.

I just now discovered your other post at
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1170202&highlight=#1170202
You are right when you say that your SA Triumphonic cornet serial number 30182 is from the early to mid 1960's.
SA only made 34,283 instruments in its entire history before they shut down the SA factory in 1972.
Then an agreement with Boosey and Hawkes allowed the B&H factory to make some SA/B&H instruments from 1972 through 1979.

Sal
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lmf
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Salvation Army brass instruments? You might find these links helpful:


http://www.heilsarmeemuseum-basel.ch/E/brassinstruments.php

http://www.sacollectables.com/factory.html

Best wishes,

Lloyd
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DickGraysn
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SalArmy wrote:
The guy to email with your serial number is Gordon Taylor [Gordon.Taylor@salvationarmy.org.uk] "
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=9571.0

Sal


Gordon Taylor has retired. The email to send request to now is heritage@salvationarmy.org.uk

Here is the information I got back on my daughters cornet :

30182
Instrument: Cornet
Class: Triumphonic
Model: LP
Tuned: 7 June 1962
Dispatched: 27 July 1962 or 2 August 1962 (the two volumes that contain information on 30182 give different dispatch dates)
Dispatched to: USA South
Maker: Neil and Ewens
Piston-maker: Marly
Brass or Plated: S/PA

Thanks
Bennie
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