Getting paid for church gigs?

[B2]

Hi,
I play alot in churches in my area, especially my own, but none of them pay anything. I happen to be a poor college student scrapping funds together to try and pick up a good C trumpet for orchestra and quintet so you probably see where this is going. Don't get me wrong I love doing it but these are the kind of churches where they like to have people play for their services and don't offer any anything, so I don't ask.

So my question is this, is it ok to ask to get paid in this kind of situation? I get the feeling that they would'nt want me back if I started asking for compensation, but I really need places to perform...

Thanks,
Matt
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"A trumpeter's life is risky and you have to be able to take those risks. No great playing is accomplished if a person is afraid of playing. To be timid or favor notes or ranges is running away from that risk."
Herseth

[wvtrumpet]

If they are inviting you to play then I think that you should get some sort of compensation. I ran into this a lot as a young musician and I just pretty much decided that I would play for my own church for free, others would be based upon how much they expected me to play. To this day if I am asked to only play an Anthem with the choir, I usually only charge 30.00 to 50.00. If I am asked to peform, prelude, postlude, offering etc...I charge a whole lot more. You have to keep in mind the amount of time preparing for a gig, the distance in travel, and the amount of time out of your day to do so. If you are in a small town sometimes the mindset of the people you are dealing with is not that of a working musician, so its a touchy subject. I usually tell my fees upfront.
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[dave belknap]

Ask the pastor if he is working for no compensation. You can be certain that he is compensated.

NEVER PLAY FOR FREE.

When I play Taps at a military funeral, I'm paid full #47 scale. If the deceased is a combat veteran, I give the check back to the family. I've found that many...too many funeral directors charge for the bugler under "music". You didn't get your instrument(s) or your training for free.
Don't give away your trade.

Dave Belknap
Trumpet
Local #47 American Federation of Musicians
Hollywood, CA

[ejaime23]

I don't want to come off like a jerk, but at least in my case most of the churches in my area have plenty of money, yet still underpay their musicians, NEVER PLAY FOR FREE, and don't take any gigs not worth your while, not only do they take advantage of you that way, but you also lower the pay expectation for others, best of luck!
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If the track is tough and the hill is rough, THINKING you can just ain't enough! - Shel Silverstein

[53]

this is funny. I've heard two totally different pieces of advice on this forum.

A: Never turn a gig down.
B: Never play for free.

uhh... sometimes it's gonna happen.

My thinking is that since they ask you for money with the collection plate, there is no shame in asking for it back if you do something for them.
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marty

[Bill Bryant]

I knew a guy who played every week at a large church in Texas and was paid $50 every week and then immediately put $50 in the offering every week.

Somebody noticed this and stopped paying him, figuring why bother since he always put it right back in the offering.



Good grief

[WildCat]

I remember one church that called me a while back asking for a trumpet in their Sunday service. When I asked about how much the going rate was (it was a full orchestra, and so long as nobody else complains about the bread, don't bother passing me the butter either), the music director replied with something along the lines of "We're in the hole with money this season, so we really can't afford to give you anything". This puzzled me a little bit, as I knew someone who played a gig (on bass) at their fundraiser the week prior, where they accumulated a few million dollars. Not only did that money get deposited into the church's bank account, but my bass playing buddy got $400 as opposed to my projected...nothing. I brought this up to the music director, and he said he'd call someone else. The funny thing though, is that he still calls me for the pro bono jobs every month or so. Someone clue me in as to whether this makes any sense or not.
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Vince K.

[Dale Proctor]

I play in my own church for free, even when they've hired other outside musicians for the same gig. I've hardly ever been asked to play in other churches for nothing, but when asked, I've turned those few down. There are plenty of players willing to play for nothing, grateful for the opportunity to play in public. I'm not one of them. I generally don't do freebies unless it looks like a fun gig or it's for a good cause that I care about. Otherwise, when the horn comes out of the case, $50 minimum.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[Athos]

Perhaps if you need places to perform, you should consider scheduling your own recitals. The performance lit is then of your choosing, and it's bound to be more fun than playing whatever hymn-tune arrangements are presented from week to week. If a church can't afford to pay you to play, you could offer to play a Sunday or two in exchange for providing a venue for your recital.

[Umyoguy]

Whenever I get asked to play, I simply ask "And what is the fee?" It is assumed that you are compensated for your time and talent - At least it should be.

Jon

[morm3993]

Don't play church gigs for free. If you want to perform more, like previously said, do a recital, form that quintet but, don't play for free in church.

If you're young, in college, there are some times you do free gigs. If you think it can get you more work later...I am sure plenty of folks here can tell you that gigs lead to other/more gigs.

[Dan O'Donnell]

Matt,

In my opinion...

There is a HUGE difference between playing for God and being taken advantage of.

Getting paid for playing at a church is certainly a personal decision and I do not believe that I, nor should anyone else, advise everyone to do the same thing when everyone's circumstances are different.

As an example, some people charge for playing Taps at a military funeral, while others join "buglesacrossamerica" and play for free.

Neither people being wrong...just people who have different needs...who are in different situations.

I have been a volunteer Trumpet player in the churches that I have been a member of for well over (15) years, however, my individual situation is different from many others...

1.) God has blessed me with a good paying "day job" therefore, I do not have the need for my churches money.
2.) God has blessed me with GREAT equipment and a little talent.
3.) God has blessed me by allowing me to be part of our worship service where I can praise Him with my horns and also assist others in worshipping Him.

As for the other churches that are requesting your playing for free, I believe you should think about the following...

1.) You have invested money in your equipment, automobile, gas etc.
2.) Your time is worth money. (Your talent was a gift from God...NEVER mistake it for your committment to practice, playing long tones Blah Blah Blah.)
3.) Do you have a need for additional income?
4.) Do you want to donate your time to the specific church that has requested your services?

Risking getting flamed like..."this is not the religion forum" etc...I would just ask you...deep down...what do you feel is right?

I'm sure you will make the right decision.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other specific questions regarding this.
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God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell

"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3

[camel]

I never play in churches for free.

most of these churches are pretty rich, so I don't see why they wouldn't be able to pay me.

1) pratice time
2) instruments
3) travelling
4) insurance

and then the rest of your life that needs to be payed.


So let them pay.

[patdublc]

I play quite a few free gigs for my own amusement. These include a Community Band and some "mentoring" gigs with a local university. I don't play church gigs for free. My reasoning is a) live musicians need to get paid & b) it takes me away from attending my church with my family.
The one exception being my own church where I will play for free at any time.
I also reserve Easter to play at my church. Easter is typically the biggest church related paycheck for brass players of the year. I always use a brass quartet and have asked that the other three members be compensated well at my expense.
Occasionally, someone will call me for a wedding and then be surprised at the cost. I have a set pricing structure based on location, whether or not they require a rehearsal (I don't), and what music is to be performed. I don't generally negotiate on the price. It is what it is. This standard must be working quite well because the tips that I've been getting at weddings are phenomenal. In fact, one wedding tipped me 200% of what I charged - that's right, they gave me 3X of what I had requested. I "musta" done good. And, I'm probably the most expensive wedding trumpeter in my area, so I doubt that I'm under pricing my services.
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Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models.

[brianwhitehead]

I generally charge for church gigs. However, if I am asked to play the Last Post at Remembrance Day, I give the money received to a veterans' charity.
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[trickg]

There have been a lot of interesting replies here. This subject has com up in the past with answers ranging from "don't play for free" to "how can you in good conscience charge to play for God!?"

For me, it has always depended on the job. For holidays, weddings and special services, in my opinion, pay is a must unless you are doing it at you church as part of your church's music ministry. That's a different story because at that point you are serving in a ministry of the church - part of what you give is your sacrifice of time and effort. But if you play ANY other church other than your home church, I think that you should most definitely ask for pay. We as musicians have put a lot of time, money and effort into doing what we do and as a result, I believe we should be paid for it.

So, there is no definitive answer in my opinion - I believe that it depends upon the situation, but that generally speaking you should be paid for your musical services.
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Patrick Gleason
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[cwerickson]

This was my undergrad teacher's pet peeve -- his famous line was, "If they needed a plumber, do you think they'd expect then to come for free?"

(Sound familiar, Trent?)

Tina

[plunkett]

My two cents...

I play my own church for free (except weddings) and charge at other churches. Yes, there are outside musicians playing with me sometimes (and getting paid). Their going rate is $50...

Pat

[robert_white]

Matt,

You make an interesting point in your first post - that you've already played for free at some of these places. I think you're right that if you start charging, they may not ask you back. In other words "the damage has been done".

I would suggest that the next time such a place calls, you explain that you are no longer playing for free. Expect a guilt trip, but you don't have to listen. Don't get into that discussion with them, just explain that you're no longer providing free music.

Some of those places might wise up and offer you something, but more importantly you're bolstering the principle that so many have touched on here: don't give away your profession. Your talent may be god-given, but your hard work is your own.

[gregc]

My teacher played 5 services on Christmas. I think he charged $1000.00
total.
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gregc