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mouthpiece to leadpipe Gap?



 
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bent tubing
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject: mouthpiece to leadpipe Gap? Reply with quote

Hello again i would like anyone who can, inform me as to the importance of the "Gap" to trumpet playing. I beliece the gap is the distance betwee the shank end opening of the mouthpiece and the beginning entrance end the leadpipe receiver. Not the receiver end, that's visible on the outside of the instrument but the beginning of the leadpipe entrance, inside the trumpet. anyway i've been told that the industry standard is about 1/8 inch or close? i wonder if the distance or gap really makes that big a difference and is it crucial to have the gap at that setting. my real question is how do you determine the best or proper working gap for each individual set up like bore size and dimensions of the trumpet and the mouthpiece? i guess i'm looking for a good rule of thumb but i am finding out as i research the mathematics and "what works for one may not necessarilly work for everyone" that there is no set "unniversal" rule that applies to all because of the many variables in player to equipment combinations and differences. i thought maybe anyone would like to take a stab at this "gap" and if you don't think it matters all that much you can disregard this post. but anyway thanks for listenning and i do appreciate all you guyzzezz help. "the longest journey is from your head to your heart" peace
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richardwy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had no success in altering the gap on my Bb. That is no improvement. I think its because my skills are rudimentary rather than advanced.

Here's a story about gap told to me by my teacher a couple weeks ago.

He was teaching at a jazz camp. His son was there. The son has a Kanstul WB horn. My teacher could not make the upper register notes speak easily on the Kanstul. Until . . .

He told a fellow teacher about it. They piddled with the gap. In a short while, the Kanstul opened up like it was a horn from another planet compared to how it had been playing.

Obviously, the horn had not changed. The two teachers piddled with gap and Viola!

True story.

Also, my teacher is a monster. Can do anything. Low F# to A above high C, ALL useable. Any dynamic range. Any articulation. Any anything.

So maybe you have to be very good to make hay out of gap adjustments.

I wish the tech folks who make mouthpieces and sleeves and such weren't so mumbo jumbo about it. But, they want to earn a living I guess.
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EricM224
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the gap size is an individual preferance, but the industry standard does depend on the brand. For a Bach teh gap distance is to be 1/8 of an inch. The flaw with this is that the mouthpieces generally do not fit this mold. However, Bob Reeves or several other custom mouthpiece guys can cut your mouthpiece for sleeves. It does make a difference in the way the standing wave gets set up in the horn and I think you'll be suprised at the amouth that it lights up the harmonics, at least in my experience. I trust Bob Reeves and his work. I would also say that it's a good idea to buy several sleeves and find what suites you best. Good Luck!
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bent tubing
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:33 pm    Post subject: Trumpet mouthpiece to leadpipe gap Reply with quote

thanks for your responses Eric and Richard. We seem to have reached a good comprimise and i think that that was right on about my trumpet skills have to be reasonablly increased to get the most out of the Gap issue but i feel that the sleeves may be money that may be better spent on lessons or other music books than worrying about the "perfect" sounding trumpet. i guess with dilligent practice and years of playing will be the true improvement because i don't think that any gap is not going to improve my playing if there is no consistent "correct" practice, whatever that is.. thanks again you guys and maybe some more good information will come about that may be something someone else could use who have been there or are still there now. yeah i'm a 56 yr old newbie. Keep on makin music
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richardwy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bent,

Drop over to the Comeback Forum here in Trumpet Herald. Lots of good guys and gals.

Sounds like you're making the right move to me. There's lots of stuff I'd like to try, and I think 3/4ths of it is plain silly for me to do so.

I get to watch better qualified players give it a go and report their findings. That's fun.

I'm 50, and started practicing after a 25 yr "rest" about a year and half ago. You've got lots of company.
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michael manthey
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:12 pm    Post subject: Gap Reply with quote

Yes .. the gap is important, but it might be different for everone. Look @ www.bobreeves.com ... that will pretty much lay it out for you.

All the best
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camel
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know anything about gaps.
What I do know: on the C trumpet ( Bach ) on the Eb ( B&S Challenger ) on the Bb ( I used to play Olds Recording ) and on the piccolo ( Stomvi, trumpetshank ) I used the same mouthpiece for a week. It costed me some time to adapt, but they are said to have different gaps. But still with the same mouthpiece they all play very comfortable, with a good sound.

So I wonder: should I worry about gaps, or just practice and play.

Sidenote: for piccolo I'm on the search again, because GR66L is NOT the best for piccolo for me
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richardwy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

camel wrote:
But still with the same mouthpiece they all play very comfortable, with a good sound.

So I wonder: should I worry about gaps, or just practice and play.


Practice and play sounds like the right thing to do, eh?
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Getzen Capri Cornet
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Accordion Ron
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI, I had an LA Benge that played sharp on G above the staff. I had Bob Reeves machine my Mt Vernon 1 1/4C (then mp) down for sleeves, and that cured the intonation problem. I had purchased two sleeves. The one that sounded best was out of tune. Strange?
I am now playing a Lawler Model T with either a GR64M, or Schilke 8E2. The difference in gap is about 3/16. with the Schilke going further in the horn. I was sure that having the Schilke shortened would improve the playing.
I took it to JIm Becker at Osman's. He did several measurments, and concluded that that's the way they are. They both play well in tune. The difference being the sound. GR = nice and bright. Schilke is more like a cornet.
You can try the "paper trick" or some tape on the mp to see if a larger gap makes any improvement. The only way to go smaller is with the sleeves.
RON
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_dcstep
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

camel wrote:

Sidenote: for piccolo I'm on the search again, because GR66L is NOT the best for piccolo for me


I use GR66.8s on my Bb and C and really find that the GR64PM works very well for me on my Stomvi Master picc. With just a little practice it's pretty easy to move back and forth between the horns.

Dave
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bent tubing
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:11 pm    Post subject: trumet to mouthpiece gap? Reply with quote

Hi yall thanks for the great feedback on the gap issue! i think you guys are right! what is needed is more practice and less time asking for more information which does not apply to me because of the short time i've been playing the trumpet and i thank yall for that! it seems that i am gonna take yall's advice and spend a little time hangin out with the vets in the come back forum anyway cheir and "keep on makin' " music if that is what makes you happy peace
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regularsopguy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: trumet to mouthpiece gap? Reply with quote

bent tubing wrote:
Hi yall thanks for the great feedback on the gap issue! i think you guys are right! what is needed is more practice and less time asking for more information which does not apply to me because of the short time i've been playing the trumpet and i thank yall for that! it seems that i am gonna take yall's advice and spend a little time hangin out with the vets in the come back forum anyway cheir and "keep on makin' " music if that is what makes you happy peace


the gap is overrated anyway, right?
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