Jim Manley & Airmen of Note lead trpts hang on YouTube

[Don Lee]

Lee:

Who the heck are you? Thousands of posts. Are you the world's expert on all things related to trumpets?

[Skip]

At the risk of being flamed, I have to agree with Lee.

I, as well as a couple other trumpet players, are in search of the magic answer, words of wisdom, etc. of what really is taking place & allowing it to be so, apparently, effortless for some players. I don't think anyone has THE answer, or surely they would bottle & sell it.

My feelings are that it ultimately comes down to genetics with great practicing. If you are fortunate to be born with "the right stuff" (whatever it is - perfect teeth/dentition, strong oral muscles with great nerve innervation, right mix of slow & fast twitch nerve endings, right oral cavity shape & size, good lip shape, texture & size, etc., etc.) and apply them through practice - you too can play like (fill in the blank great artist) Mendez, Maynard, Doc, Chase, Miles, Manley, etc. Unfortuntely for the masses under the Bell curve, we weren't born with the genetics, and there's nothing we can do (so far) to get them. We can practice more & smarter, and we will improve & get closer and achieve OUR best, but for most of us, we will never achieve what these gifted people did.

When asked how these greats do or did what they were able to do, most, themselves, admitted that they didn't have a clue how or what they did to achieve & accomplish what they did. They often said nebulous things like "I just put the horn to my lips & blow" or "it just works" or other similar phrases.

I feel that the "air" thing that Jim declares as his epiphamy has more to do with increasing his endurance, and works for him, than it has anything to do with his range. Clearly Jim had the range before this light went on about the air. If just using the air efficiently, breathing into & from the depths of the diaphragm, opening the throat, & playing with no tension was the key or answer to the stratosphere of playing, we would ALL be able to do it. Just my opinion, YMMV.

[Don Herman rev2]

I admit right up front that I did not look at the video. I suspect it barely scratches the surface of what Jim can do.

What I can tell you, from meeting with Jim in person, is that in addition to being a fantastic player and incredibly nice guy, he is a very gifted teacher. He explains his concepts quite well, demonstrates them, and can (as others have said) give you the tools to do it yourself. It's not magic, and he won't claim that it is. It takes work (practice) to relax!

Jim has worked hard to get where he's at. Very hard, and for a long time. I think to say, sight unseen (ok, aside from whatever videos are running around), that he simply "fell" into his range is a fallacy and denigrates a person who worked very hard to become one of the best players and teachers around. I know a number of players who worked for their range, including Jim and George Graham, who weren't prodigies and built their playing (not just their range) up from "average" to "great". It takes work, and thought, and then more work.

Besides, Jim's sound is simply incredible, rich and fat, from the pedal range into the stratosphere. He is NOT just some high-note Johnnie (or, Jimmie ).

FWIWFM - Don
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

[thecleaner]

Actually Lee has had some great advice on playing high. I read one of his posts where he explains why most players cut out past a certain note. He explained that you need tight corners and soft tissue inside of the mouthpiece. (a lot more detail then that of course) You have to take the time to practice and experiment to find your sweet spot, or what will work for you.

I liked the video very much, I have never heard of any of the guys in the video. They sure sound great though!!!

[Kevin Burns]

[westview1900]

Thank you Mr. Burns for putting those videos on line. Mr. Manley seems to be very enthusiastic, generous, and utterly enjoys playing. I think that these traits certainly help people succeed in whatever field they pursue.
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[LeeC]

[crzytptman]

Nice post Lee. I think it should be a sticky on the LeeC dedicated forum.
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[EBjazz]

So what did I learn from Lee's last post?
1. His life story
2. Al Cass had some great advice that was left out of the post
3. Tinker with your embochure
And of course
4. Ideas like "use the air", "arch your tongue" ,"syllables" "it's all in your breathing" are thoughtless and useless.

How does this help anyone?

Eb
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[mfan]

Kevin, Thanks for posting those vids. That is some silly stuff. It just makes me laugh. After watching the vid I tried some of the things he was talking about in my next big band rehearsal. I found that I kind I got worn out a little earlier. My sound really opened up but I didn't fell like my chops had the same strength. How is it working for you? Are you having any similar issues?

LeeC- What's your beef with Manley? I'd love to see you put up some vids and show us all how it's done. Then make sure to tell us how you made it work and how we can use it to better our own playing. I think there's lots of valuable info in the clips. So it didn't work for YOU. Sorry to hear that. Sometimes I think folks on here get too worked up over EXACTLY what is happening. "What should my lips feel like when I'm playing a DHC?" You're kidding right? Sometimes you gotta go out and play. Just blow, forget about your aperture, corners, mpce placement, is it wet or dry.... don't make it so hard, just play! I think people spend too much time on these boards and not enough time in a practice room with a horn on their face.

[1B]

This is my first post in the high range part of the forum. I am not a lead player, however have always appreciated players that figure that part of the horn out successfully. The thing that has always bothered me about this forum is that some people think that their way is the only way to achieve success, which just isn't the case. I am a big advocate of mouthpiece buzzing. It has made a huge difference in my success as a trumpet player. I know of others who would never buzz on a mouthpiece alone, but sound great. Do I respect them? Absolutely. Are they wrong in their approach? Not at all. However, their approach doesn't work for me. The beauty of this is that there are many ways to accomplish the same goal. In the video, Mr. Manley stated that he likes his resistance to be at the front of the horn, and that Wayne's horn (I assume he is talking about Wayne Bergeron) is too open for him. This is a perfect example of two VERY successful people doing things a different way, but still arriving at the same goal. It's interesting to note that Faddis, Shew, Ingram and Chase used/use medium bore horns, however, Maynard used an extra large bore horn. All of them are phoenominal players, but have different approaches.

LeeC, I'm sure you are very accomplished, but obviously, so is Mr. Manley. Can we agree that there is more that one right way to accomplish upper register success?

Kevin, thanks for posting these for us to see, and thanks for taking time to contribute to this forum. You and the Note came through my town (Salem, OR) on Mother's day two years ago. My wife and I thoroughly enjoyed the group. By the way, you are an outstanding MC; first class all the way. Please give my regards to Dudley Hinote (we were in school together a long time ago).

Please play nices fellas. We need to help each other. Let's don't run the pros away from our forum.

Peace to you all,
Jaimie Hall

[Kevin Burns]

[Eddie Severn]

I have watched to videos several times and read all the posts. Personally I found the whole thing very interesting and well worth looking at and am glad that is was shared on youtube.

Like many players I also studied with Bobby Shew, who of course taught me the wedge breathing technique. Some of what Jim says seems to be somewhat at odds with Bobby's thing about raising the shoulders etc. The yoga complete breath is basically divided into low middle and high breathing. Jim says in the video that he does not breathe "above the 3rd button on his shirt" which means that he focuses on the low area most and leaves his chest relaxed. I have often found that taking in too much air can lead to tension all over the place and Jim seems to be making this an important point.

I'd be interested to hear from other students of Bobby's what their view is on what Jim talks about as opposed to the wedge system of breathing. Getting the compression to feel close to the aperture area is something I really related too. More compression less air so as to speak.

[Don Herman rev2]

Jim taught me the wedge breath as he felt it would help me support the sound better with my large-bore horn. The concepts can be combined, but in his normal playing he does not use the wedge breath. He knows it and will use/teach it where it is useful. I believe Jim has met and/or worked with Bobby Shew; there's no rivalry there. I have seen the wedge described wrongly many times, and as I am at best third-generation I am not competent to describe it here. I'll just say that it can be performed without all the excess tension that so many (myself included,especially at first) seem to attribute to it.

As for tension, Jim plays disgustingly relaxed. He takes efficiency to a whole new level. A lesson with him is a revelation.

Jim has posted hear now and then; maybe he'll jump in.

FWIWFM - Don
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

[Mikeytrpt]

I would think that Bobby has seen these videos by now. Does anybody know him well enough to ask him for his opinion?

I tried learning the wedge, but had trouble keeping my body relaxed. I need to sit with somebody that has it down...I also think Jim and Bobby's methods could be somewhat combined...

[skootchy]

Dear God:
Please please please let me play like Jim Manly and I will never ever ask you for anything ever again....
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Praise him with the sound of the trumpet! Ps. 150:3
>=iii=O

[Mikeytrpt]

Hmmmm..............Does that include taking a vow of celebacy?


(Just kidding)

[skootchy]

[Juergen]

[Don Herman rev2]