What do you do with a .485 bore?

tom turner · Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject:

Hi,

I'd recommend a short shank cornet mouthpiece for that horn. It will play better, for it was designed for a shorter mouthpiece . . . and one with a little deeper cup. If you MUST stick with a Bach, find a 5A . . . a real cornet mouthpiece (that gives a non-trumpet-like, real cornet sound) vs. the C cup types which are basically a trumpet top on a cornet shank.

Both Curry and Flip Oakes offer vintage cornet mouthpiece lines that would work well with your horn, as well as the more common and longer standard-length cornet versions.

Both brands sound great, although Flip's cups are more radically V-shaped like the original type mouthpieces of the 1900-1920 period and, IMHO, thus they sound a like more authentic.

Warburton also makes short shank cornet backbores and excellent cornet tops that will give you a great CORNET sound from your new (for you) Conn cornet.

The .485 bore is a non-issue. Conn used that particular bore only because it worked best with that particular model! Makers understand that horns that don't play their best ain't gonna sell and Conn surely make valve clusters with quite a few bore sizes that could have been used but didn't work as well!

Tom

mcahynuacrkd · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 1149

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mcahynuacrkd · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 1149

chuyler1 · Regular Member Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 53

So I got the horn back yesterday, just in time for rehearsal. I went with the Bach 3C which fits pretty well. At first I thought it was going to wiggle a little but it set in after playing for a minute.

Despite the large bore, it has more back pressure than my Bach Strat 72*. So anyone worried about going from a ML trumpet to a L cornet need not. The sound is very warm and it takes more effort to play forte which tires my diaphram. I notice the most difference between trumpet and cornet at forte between 4th space E and C above the staff. The 72* has a brilliant bright sound that cuts through the entire band while the cornet simply produces a full rich sound. I should record both for reference. Another note is that I must play A above the staff with 3rd valve (1-2 is very high).

And that brings me to another question about the slides that came with the instrument. I assumed they are for A and Bb and the shorter ones are for Bb? However, to get the instrument in tune I had to pull the tuning slide out 2"! Does that mean I should be using the longer tuning slide instead? If so, what is the point of giving me the shorter one? Any help on this would be appreciated.
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Bach Model 72 / GR66M

tom turner · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject:

cleanhead77@embarqmail · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject:

You may very well have a high pitch horn, if you have to pull the slide out that far. A C type cup may add to the sharpness, as it has been noted in several posts previously, those horns were designed to play with the mouthpieces of the day, which were similar to today's flugel mouthpieces in the cup and throat. Try a typical Denis Wick mpc and see if that helps.
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tom turner · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject:

Actually, if you'll pull up the ebay link, you can see that the original poster's new horn comes with the full "kit" in the case . . . complete with dual sets of slides for low and high pitch Bb.

Trying to pull the high pitch tuning slide out would have been severe and the horn would have had horrible intonation when the valved combinations were used too . . . unless all the valve slides were pulled out the correct amounts too. In the case of the second valve slide, there wouldn't have been enough inner tube engaged to assure proper compression seal.

CHECK OUT THE PHOTOS . . . that's one gorgeous Circus Bore cornet!

Here's an example:

T.

chuyler1 · Regular Member Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 53

Thanks guys! That is the exact answer I was looking for. The other tuning slide is about 1.5" longer than the one in the horn now (as seen in the photo). I was able to play reasonably in tune during rehearsal but I noticed if I tuned for the open horn A above the staff is very sharp, D and C# at the bottom of the staff were very sharp. Anyway, I will swap the slides and go with that. ...and yes the horn is very beautiful. The bell is almost perfect while the body had wear marks in typical spots and it looks as though the lower pipe coming off the tuning slide was resoldered. I'm not disappointed though because it sounds great and is a joy to play.

As for MPCs, I wish I had time to try some different ones before purchasing the 3C but when I picked up the horn, Osmun didn't have any other options in stock that were similar to the ones everyone was suggesting. I guess I'll have to go to a bigger music store or take a chance by ordering something online. I am keeping my eye out for a vintage MPC on eBay too.
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Bach Model 72 / GR66M

broken cello orchestra · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:19 am Post subject: Conn 485 bore cornet

I have one of these large bore Conn Shooting Starts; I have a half dozen of relatively inexpensive student cornets and this one is by far MY FAVORITE. I'm able to get better intonation with a very easy open feel. I play it with a big cornet mouthpiece, Schilke 24 or Bach 1A.
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Jeff
Yamaha 231 cornet
Conn Shooting Star (0.484 bore size) Cornet
Besson key of F alto horn
Dynasty key of G mellophone
Yamaha key of F mellophone

bike&ed · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837

Now you can tell Wild Thing players that their horns are just medium-large bore in comparison...

Dale Proctor · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:51 am Post subject:

Yep, .485" bore Conn cornets are what all the cool kids are playing. Add some Coprion parts and the wow factor is multiplied...

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Benge.nut · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Mar 2017 Posts: 695

"What do you do with a .485 bore"??

Put a trombone mouthpiece in it, and call it a day!!

Turkle · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:15 am Post subject:

I have a Connstellation 38A short cornet, which has the .485 bore. It has an absolutely gigantic sound, but it is tiring to play for extended periods of time. I've never heard another horn that sounded like it.

These days for cornet I'm favoring my 1936 King Master, which is something like half the weight and a much friendlier .459 bore for maximum efficiency and a hot "burn" on the sound when you push it. Fun horn.
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Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.

giakara · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:43 am Post subject:

I love LB cornets but I don't have iron chops so I use a pair of Purviance pieces with tight bbore to manage my .464 eterna and my .485 Conn 81A.

Regards
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Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs

Dale Proctor · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:51 am Post subject:

I've been playing my Conn 9A on a Bach 3 (no letter) mouthpiece and it's working out great. Using a brass band-style mouthpiece with a huge throat on the Conn is like blowing into nothing, so the 27 throat on the Bach gives a bit of relief and feedback. The cup is deep enough to produce a nice cornet tone (and the horn helps

), but not so deep that endurance suffers. The rim is comfortable to me, too, so I'm pleased.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

razeontherock · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:22 pm Post subject:

EdMann · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:07 pm Post subject:

I've got a Conn 80A, .485 circus bore that I love, and a couple of old Conn mpcs do the trick. That thing is like a pool drain.

ed

tom turner · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:11 pm Post subject:

Actually, I've got a very nice 1939 80A (.485) that plays much tighter than my .470 Wild Thing short cornet.

As I've said many times, bore size in and of itself is meaningless. It is the sum of the parts that makes a horn play "right." I can be a medium bore like a lot of the Kings, or small bore, large, or whatever. When it all comes together right on a great specimen, it is magical!
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Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet

bike&ed · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837

It was a joke! Tom is of course 100% correct however. I had a LB Besson, several LB Bachs with the 25 bell, and a Harrelson, all of which played more "open" than my multiple Wild Things.

fabiopereirabr · Regular Member Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 58