My 8310Z

shawverjm · Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: My 8310Z

Hey guys, I guess this post is mainly for player who also use the 8310Z Yamaha.

I was wondering why it seems like I can play just about anything easier on any other horn. Isn't this horn supposed to be easier to play on? I mean any horn. It feels easier to play on a Strad, yamaha bergeron model, etc...

I'm sure it' something I'm doing because the 8310Z is a relatively new horn. I have been told by my previous teacher who teaches in Minnesota that when he switched it took him a very long time to get the overall feel for the horn. But when it finally clicked, everything was so comfortable and easy to play.

What are some thoughts, if anyone has any insights on this matter please let me know. I would prefer not to get the switch to a new horn posts because that's not an option. I bought this horn and I'm not hying away from this challenge.

Justin

shawverjm · Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject:

I forgot to add, I play on a Marcinkiewicz Bobby shew 1.

mathgeek · Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject:

I started playing an 8310Z in December and I have not had a hard time with it at all. I was playing a plain vanilla Xeno for about 2 years prior to this. Maybe the fact I was playing a Yamaha the last couple of years has something to do with my lack of problems.

Suggestions:
1.) Take it to a quality repair guy and see if there is anything patently wrong with it.

2.) Play test another 8310Z along with yours. It might just be your horn or it might be that the 8310Z is not your cup of tea.

What exactly is hard about it? Intonation, ease of playing, slotting, backing up, too open? Lots of things come to mind.
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BIGBUSHI · Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject:

The 8310z is simply the best horn I've ever played bar none. I have tried many, many horns that didn't compare including Wild Things, V Raptors, Taylors..... In other words some highly acclaimed, expensive horns. I came off years of playing a Selmer Claude Gordon to the Yamaha and have never looked back. Don't try to overpower the z. It works great with an efficient embouchure. You'll love it!
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shawverjm · Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject:

The biggest problem I am experiencing is, what i believe to be my chops backing up on me. Several of my instructors say in order to play this horn we need to roll out our lips rather than in, and drop our jaw.

I think maybe I'm trying to use to much embouchure when I go higher. Is this a problem you guys have had with this horn?

JakeUND · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 589

You are playing a very tight setup. Have you tried backing off a little on air?
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shawverjm · Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject:

When you say back off the air, what exactly do you mean. Use less of it? Less compression?

It's really funny, sometimes everything will just click perfectly and I'll have High G's all day long, then the next day it is so hard for me to find the same set-up where those G's will pop out of no where.

mathgeek · Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject:

You might be overblowing the horn.

If you pucker is increasing as you ascend that is good. But you should be able to keep the vibrating surface from protruding outward (don't let the lips into the cup). Since your lips are getting pushed forward, my guess is that you are blowing too hard and your lips can't meet the resistance and the lips are collapsing into the cup.

This is all symptomatic of too much air. Like an earlier post said, you really need to baby this horn.
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JakeUND · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 589

Remember that in the upper register even less air than the lower register enters the horn. That high G requires very little air even at quite loud volumes. Try backing off on the air. It'll do wonders for your endurance and range.
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shawverjm · Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the advice guys!!

I'll check some of this stuff out tomorrow in my practice sessions. I'll update with more questions if I have any. Keep the posts coming if you guys have more advice.
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kramergfy · Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject:

Yup, just always remember not to push the Z too hard; playing it LOUD is different than most horns since the lead pipe starts out pretty tight.

I've heard people suggesting opening the throat up on your mouthpiece when using a Z, but what helped me was warming up SOFTY at PPP. Play Claude Gordon chromatics up to High C at PPP and get that aperture set correctly, and that will get you playing relaxed enough to get the notes to come out nice and easy. Once things start to feel easy, then you can start stepping on the gas and playing louder EASIER. Thats what has helped me a lot, and I got my Z in Jan 07. Great horn with a versatile sound, and if you back off like Shew himself suggests, its really a great horn.
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spitvalve · Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject:

I play-tested a 6310z a few years ago that a buddy of mine had. My first comment to him was "it's stuffy." (I own a ML Bach and a Claude Gordon Selmer) He told me to back off. I did, and was I ever surprised! My range went up a fourth immediately, and stayed up there for the whole hour he let me play the horn.

Haven't had a chance to play the new 8310z, but if it's anything like the original Z it can really make your life easier when it comes to high stuff. I think because the horn is a little smaller, you can get away with using a bigger backbore on the mouthpiece. I first tried the Z with a Warburton 4SV/4* and that was too tight, so I tried the 8 backbore and it really opened up. Just for fun I tried some of my other mouthpieces--when I put in my Bach 1 1/4C I was able to get a satisfactory classical sound--not quite as much as on my Bach Strad, at least to my ears. My friend thought it sounded better than the Bach, but he was standing in front of the horn. I understand the 6310z is a little more directional than the 8310z.

One of these days I'm gonna scrape up the cash to buy a Z. I've been saying that for ten years now.
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markchuvala · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Apr 2007 Posts: 640

The trick to playing a smaller bore horn, is to stay on it, and not switch to other trumpets.

If you keep trying larger bore horns (bachs yamahas etc) you aren't going to get used to the blow of a more efficient trumpet.

Like the other guys say, probably you are overblowing the horn. It takes much less effort to get a trumpet like the 8310Z to respond. take it easy, and try a couple days of just playing relaxed, not trying to blister paint off the walls, and it'll click for you.

I have played large bore horns for 20 years, CG Benges, SChilke X3 and X4 models, MF Horn, etc...now I have a S42L which I have a larger purer more compact sound than ever before.

More endurance more efficiency.

Take it easy,

Mark

markchuvala · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Apr 2007 Posts: 640

The trick to playing a smaller bore horn, is to stay on it, and not switch to other trumpets.

If you keep trying larger bore horns (bachs yamahas etc) you aren't going to get used to the blow of a more efficient trumpet.

Like the other guys say, probably you are overblowing the horn. It takes much less effort to get a trumpet like the 8310Z to respond. take it easy, and try a couple days of just playing relaxed, not trying to blister paint off the walls, and it'll click for you.

I have played large bore horns for 20 years, CG Benges, SChilke X3 and X4 models, MF Horn, etc...now I have a S42L which I have a larger purer more compact sound than ever before.

More endurance more efficiency.

Take it easy,

Mark

Yamahaguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992

GenoValet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 1244

My experience with the 8310Z when I first got it was if you practice at ppp for awhile, then gradually increase through the dynamic range, you'll find that the 8310Z takes much less effort to get to ff than say a Bach Strad since that was what I was used to (using the same mpc, Marcinkiewicz 308).

EdMann · Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:28 am Post subject:

Mine was a tad stuffy but after sending to Bobby for a tweak, it opened up and took more of what I could give it. It's now been 9 months on this horn and aside from legit, where I don't think it fits with others in sections I play with, it's wonderful, particularly as a jazz horn: sounds a great deal like my Committee, maybe a touch brighter. Great on lead as well-- very responsive to mpc selection.

Ed Mann
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mfan · Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: shew mpce

Try switching the mpce. I saw Bobby Shew a few years ago and after I told him I was on the marck. mpce he told me to go try the Yamaha version. He said Joe never made the backbore the way he wanted it. So I finally switched to the Yamaha Shew Lead about a year later and never looked back. I guess when Bobby Shew tells you to switch your mpce you'd better do it! Good luck.

Brad361 · Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:10 am Post subject:

I don't currently play the Shew horn, but have owned one. I never noticed any difficulty with the horn, but as others here have said, you could be over-blowing. If you notice marked difficulty with it though, as mathgeek said, I'd have it checked by a COMPETENT repair guy, if you can find one. Possibly a valve alignment could help?

JoeCool · Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:38 am Post subject:

I've been doing some research on this horn and am seriously interested. Where exactly is the .445 measured? I've read specs saying the horn is actually about .460 at the end of the lead pipe and .463 at the third valve entrance. Can anybody confirm this? With the reversed lead and 5" bell, I would think it has to be free blowing. Is the lead pipe at the venturi smaller than usual?
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