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Conn Connstellation 36B's



 
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LaBestia
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: Conn Connstellation 36B's Reply with quote

What is the bell material on the Conn Constellation 36B's.

My understanding is that the best 38B's had a copper bell with nickel plating......is that the case with the 36b's as well?
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Robert Rowe
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. All brass.


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LaBestia
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Rowe:

With all your experiences with these horns how would you compare the sound of the 36B to the 38B?

Thanks again!
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Robert Rowe
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm ....

As a generalized opinion, I'd probably put the 36B in a category with the well-known Bach Strads with the 37-bell. The bore compares similarly in the ML (Medium-Large) size, and the "blow" is similar with both horns. The tone is somewhat on the brighter side. Dynamics (ppp to fff) are very controllable and upper-register slotting is smooth. The 36B is an excellent commercial and "legit" horn. Very versatile ... somewhat the "traditional trumpet".

The 38B is different from many aspects. Aside from the very misleading small-bore size ( .438", but not apparent in the "blow" ), the 38B is capable of more range of dynamics, capable of great volume ... the horn responds well to "pushing"; hard to "overblow". The upper-register slotting is tighter. The tone is very mouthpiece sensitive ... more so than the 36B. With some specific mouthpieces, the horn can "sizzle" with the best. Not as easy to get a "darker" tone; I strongly suggest the 28A ( Cornet-version of the same horn ) for that. This horn is not really suited for symphonic application (not the horn's fault), as it will not easily blend with the ubiquitious Bach Strad dominated trumpet sections. Some players can make it work, however.


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Bigelow-Kid
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:07 am    Post subject: Conn 36B Reply with quote

Robert . . . . I'm watching a DVD of a 1979 Chet Baker concert in Europe and he's playing a Conn 36B or 38B. . . not sure which model but I'm pretty sure it's not the 28A because he's using a trpt mpc. Point is, the sound he's getting is incredibly dark and warm. It always comes back to concept of sound -- I always sounded like a lazer on my mine.
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maynard-46
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:12 am    Post subject: Conn Connstellation 36B's Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm watching a DVD of a 1979 Chet Baker concert in Europe and he's playing a Conn 36B or 38B. . . not sure which model but I'm pretty sure it's not the 28A because he's using a trpt mpc. Point is, the sound he's getting is incredibly dark and warm. It always comes back to concept of sound -- I always sounded like a lazer on my mine.


DEFINITELYa 38B!

Butch
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Robert Rowe
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, yes ... I know, I know ....

I've tried to cop Baker's tone / sound on a 38B ... just couldn't get it. Wish I could. That's why he was so special. I think he always had the proverbial "sound in his head", and could manifest that concept on whatever horn he chose to play.

'Ole humble me ... I could manage to come close to that tonality with the 28A (with careful mpc selection ... one of the great advantages of the 28A).

I think (?) a great part of that sound / tonality is playing with modest-to-light effort ... not "pushing". In-other-words, allowing the desired tonality to "come to you" ... and working within the horn's "sweet spot". Probably takes many, many hours of woodshedding on one particular horn, to discover where it "wants" to be be played.

I've found this concept to be true with several brands / types of vintage horns. One should approach each horn with an open mind. Don't try to "muscle" the instrument to do something it won't do well. I think Chet Baker was familiar with this concept ... and why he could play with great mastery. As you may know, he favored the middle and lower registers, and managed great expression in his playing. Not to say the upper-register was "limiting" for him ... he just patterned his playing to go where he and the horn were "one".

We all could learn from that ....


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supportlivejazz
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find Chet's sound hard to duplicate, and I am sure RR is a better player than I am, so it figures. He was able to get a very similar sound on a number of horns, Martin and an old Buescher I think as well. Got it both before and after he had his teeth knocked out too.

The only thing that doesn't compute is the practicing until he got that sound. From what I know of him from stories, books and the film "Let's Get Lost" (which recently played in the Boston area.. great movie, by the way) and the in put from Jack Sheldon, old Chet was a wee bit undisciplined and may not have practiced as much as many do.

At least that's the impression I get. Junkies kind of tend to have priorities other than practicing. Perhaps it was just his natural sound based on his physical make up, his hearing and his attitude.

Anyone know what mp he favored? Meanwhile, I think I'll feature him on my Saturday morning music selections.

Never mind... found it.

Martin, Committee model (50s)
Selmer flugelhorn (60s)
Conn Constellation 38B (70s)
Buescher Aristocrat, student's model (early to mid 80s - pawnshop)
Getzen Capri (86 - 87)
Selmer, model: Vincent Bach Stradivarius (87 - 8
also a large bore Besson Flugel
Bach 6B (in the 50s),
Bach 6C (from the early 70s)
also Bach 10-3/4
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Last edited by supportlivejazz on Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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maynard-46
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Conn Connstellation 36B's Reply with quote

Quote:
Anyone know what mp he favored?


According to Chet's son he played on a Bach 6B during his early years...switched to a Bach 6C after the teeth mishap...and then switched to either a 10 1/2 CW or EW very late in his career.

Butch
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FLUGELHORN: YAMAHA 631G with a Curry 00FLM or sometimes a Reeves 40DF
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Albert Parrott
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert Rowe wrote:
Hmmm ....

As a generalized opinion, I'd probably put the 36B in a category with the well-known Bach Strads with the 37-bell. The bore compares similarly in the ML (Medium-Large) size, and the "blow" is similar with both horns. The tone is somewhat on the brighter side. Dynamics (ppp to fff) are very controllable and upper-register slotting is smooth. The 36B is an excellent commercial and "legit" horn. Very versatile ... somewhat the "traditional trumpet".


My 38B from 1965 does not appear to have the copper bell, but can play with a warm sound, either with the 5C-N Connstellation mouthpiece, or my GR 66QMX. I could not say it sounds like Chet Baker though. I have never seen a 36B, but have an 8B, which has the same bore and bell size as the 36B. The 8B is not far from my 38B, maybe a bit brighter and more responsive, but obviously much lighter in weight. According to the Conn Loyalist web site, the 8B, 36B, and 38B all have a Conn #1 bore, at 0.438 inches. I surely would not compare the 8B or 38B to a Bach Strad 37 bell.

"Other than the difference in bell size and bracing, the 36B and 38B are identical. This includes the nickel plate with brass trim and the #1 (0.438" bore). 36B's produced from 1959 through 1962 have Tri-C valves, the same as 38B's produced during that period." -- The Conn Loyalist
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Robert Rowe
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A correction.

I was comparing the 28B and the 38B.


~ Namaste ....
Yogi Robt
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markp
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've recently seen a Conn 28B which has had a Kanstul copper bell installed. I wonder if that configuration might get a player closer to Chet-Land?
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Robert Rowe
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

markp wrote:
I've recently seen a Conn 28B which has had a Kanstul copper bell installed. I wonder if that configuration might get a player closer to Chet-Land?


Hey, Mark --

I suppose a horn would be D.O.A. if it were close to "Chet-Land" . I think he's in a cemetery, somewhere.

~ Namaste ....
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Pete
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently picked up a 1969 Connstellation 36B. I have to say that it is one heck of a horn! I had a 38B for a while but holding that horn is like holding a 10 lbs. bag of potatoes for 3 hours! The horn sounded and played great, but compared my 8310Z, and Bach LT, the 38B is like holding two horns to me.

The 36B however is much lighter in my opinion. It is not as light as my other horns, but feels like a regular weight Bach as far as holding it up in playing position. It responds well, and is very easy to blow. It slots well and does not feel like it will back up on me. Why didn't I know about this horn 20 years ago? The 38B was a familiar horn as some of the militaty guys were playing them. I didn't realize that there was a 36B until I heard Brian MacDonald play on his. Then the search began. I got it last week. Now the only problem is deciding what to do with the rest of my horns!

Pete
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markp
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert Rowe wrote:
markp wrote:
I've recently seen a Conn 28B which has had a Kanstul copper bell installed. I wonder if that configuration might get a player closer to Chet-Land?


Hey, Mark --

I suppose a horn would be D.O.A. if it were close to "Chet-Land" . I think he's in a cemetery, somewhere.

~ Namaste ....
Yogi Robt


Witty, but unhelpful.
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Indofunk
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert Rowe wrote:
No. All brass.


~ Namaste ....
Yogi Robt


I thought that the 36Bs followed the 38B's manufacturing process; to wit:

* Serials (5xx,xxx - ) 6xx,xxx: Brass bell, Brass leadpipe (multi-piece). "Early Model" Connstellation. See note 1.
* Serials 7xx,xxx - 9xx,xxx: Coprion bell (seamless), Coprion leadpipe (seamless). "Late Model" Connstellation. See note 2.
* Serials Cxx,xxx - Rxx,xxx: Heavy weight Brass bell, Coprion leadpipe (seamless). "Late Model" Connstellation. See note 3.
* Serials GA3xx,xxx and higher: Brass bell, brass leadpipe (who knows). "Late Model" Connstellation. See note 4.

(This is directly off of Christine's site, btw. However, her 36B page doesn't have any Coprion section, so you could very well be right about it.)
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Robert Rowe
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Satish ...

My statement was incorrect. (See my post, a few above your latest).

Somebody pimp-slap me!


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Yogi Robt
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Indofunk
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert Rowe wrote:

Somebody pimp-slap me!


I think I just did
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trumpetfun
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Conn Connstellation 36B's Reply with quote

maynard-46 wrote:
Quote:
I'm watching a DVD of a 1979 Chet Baker concert in Europe and he's playing a Conn 36B or 38B. . . not sure which model but I'm pretty sure it's not the 28A because he's using a trpt mpc. Point is, the sound he's getting is incredibly dark and warm. It always comes back to concept of sound -- I always sounded like a lazer on my mine.


DEFINITELYa 38B!

Butch


yeah, a 38B!
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