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Suggested Valve Trombone Brand?



 
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject: Suggested Valve Trombone Brand? Reply with quote

I'm considering picking up a valve trombone for a couple reasons.

My Dad is fading fast but is still a pretty good trombonist...I'd just like to duet with him a few times for funs sake (we've done trumpet/trombone duets for over 20 years - what a joy it's been). He does the slide and although I've played around with his, I'm more interested in the valve trombone.

I find them used at bargain prices (mostly Ebay) but probably won't go the Monique, Rosetti, Tristar route for obvious reasons. This leaves resale Getzen, Bach, Olds, King...And I'm open to suggestions here - and your past exeperience. I'd prefer a used horn for 1/3 the money of a new one; still the above old brands are fine for resale trumpets - and I hope for valve trombones, too. Give me your best, folks (opinion, that is)!

Thanks!
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bkonstans1
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I don't dabble too much into the world of trombones of any sort, but I do know that King makes pretty good trombones. They've got a pretty good one for lead trombone jazz playing, I hear. So my instinct is to go with a King valve bone. I also know that Bach makes some good trombones too, so if you could find a Bach valve bone I think that would be a good option too.


Waiting for someone more knowledgeable to correct me if I'm wrong,
Benny
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so55
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamaha YSL-354V. Might be cheaper than King or Bach but good enough for your purposes.
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plp
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a model Getzen I played in college that was outstanding, not sure what it was but it was not the 300 series. Kings are usually pretty good, as well as Conn and Holton.

Beware of school owned horns on ebay, especially the ones with the school's name stenciled on the side. If a budget strapped director figures it is not worth putting in another student's hands, it is usually going to need a valve rebuilt, minimum. I went through a few of these before I got a good one, and find a lot of the intonation problems with valve bone are a direct result of loss of compression.
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent thoughts, folks; just as I had hoped.

Thanks! And keep it coming if you will...


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BeboppinFool
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not recommend buying one sight unseen. They have the widest range of pitch issues of any instrument I know of.

That's one reason you might want to look into a bass trumpet.

Bob Brookmeyer told me that the mid-60s Conn valve bone was his favorite. I was able to get hold of one, but due to the large size of my hands I wasn't able to comfortably hold it (the first time I did a gig on it I got a pinched nerve in my left hand that practically paralyzed my hand for a couple weeks).

I have a 60s-ish Martin Committee valve bone that is excellent. I also like the older Bach valve bone, and the late 70s early 80s Getzen (designed by Rich Matteson). I don't have much experience with any others . . . wait, I had a Yamaha briefly when they first came out with them in the early 90s and I just didn't ever like it.

Keep us posted!
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trumphat
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a King 2B valve that I bought used and it's a very good horn, and I have to say I like the older Conns too. As with any horn - you have to try it before you buy it. You might try a Yamaha 45A mpc. with it. I had always played a Bach 12C with my valve or slide 2B's, but I happened to try the 45A and it plays great. Good luck
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vic
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:06 pm    Post subject: Olds Super? Reply with quote

My friend in our church band plays an Olds Super valve 'bone.
Does anyone have any experience with these? It appears to date from the '50's or '60's.
Thanks,
Vic
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Tom LeCompte
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich is right - there is a huge variation in intonation among valve trombones.

There is no point in building a slide trombone in tune, right? That's the one instrument that you don't have to worry about intonation, so why make other compromises in order to improve intonation? Then when the company builds a valve trombone, what's the natural starting point for the design? Their slide trombone model.

So that's why valve trombones have intonation that can often scare the children.
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DCB1
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try the Blessing B-170. Nice sound and a great price. You can also get a slide for it if you need.
http://www.brassreview.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/2022

Sorry to here about your dad.



Peace
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bike&ed
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a euphonium! Every valve t-bone I've tried has been atrocious, and that's been a bunch. Send me a PM and you can come over and try my "euph;" it's a good-playing stock Yamaha. Heck, maybe I'll even let you borrow it, or the low Bb DEG marching horn!



Last edited by bike&ed on Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dershem
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an Olds "Marching trombone" that serves very nicely as a valve trombone, but is shorter and less apt to bump into anything. It sounds like a good valve 'bone, and plays pretty well. Other marching bones I've played "like the King Flugelbone) just don't sound like trombones, though I've heard that Blessing bought the Olds design, so those might be good. And a marching Trombone will feel more like a trumpet to your hands.
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

contact any of the guys at Dillon Music in Woodbridge, NJ. Their selection of used instruments as probably second to none, and I'm sure you'll get an amazing horn at a very agreeable price.

www.dillonmusic.com
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plp
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BeboppinFool wrote:
I would not recommend buying one sight unseen. They have the widest range of pitch issues of any instrument I know of.

That's one reason you might want to look into a bass trumpet.

Bob Brookmeyer told me that the mid-60s Conn valve bone was his favorite. I was able to get hold of one, but due to the large size of my hands I wasn't able to comfortably hold it (the first time I did a gig on it I got a pinched nerve in my left hand that practically paralyzed my hand for a couple weeks).

I
Keep us posted!


Yipes! Did you ever try the 'Maynard' grip under the valve casings? I had the same problem when I first got my 5-G, then modified it to let the instrument just rest on my left hand, rather than gripping the casing in the traditional manner. I noticed the way the tubing is curved at the bottom of the casing seems to encourage that type of grip.

Now if I can ever figure out the correct way to hold a Conn Director cornet, it is all good.
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tom turner
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a vintage 1964 Olds valve + slide trombone combination that's the best of both worlds. It actually came that way in the case that holds both the slide and valve assembly.

T.
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Billy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first valve bone back in the 60's was a Getzen, which was garbage. Next I bought an older King 3B Silversonic w/ valve attachment that served me well for 20 years. I bought a new COnn in the 1980s that literally disintegrated in my hands while playing, again garbage. I came across a pro model Olds from the 50's that was not as stuffy as the King and played that for a few years. Two years ago I finally found the valve bone, a 1955 Conn 5G. Wonderful horn. In the many years I have been playing, I have found the King trombonium from the 50's to also be a kick. Just my thoughts and experience on the topic.
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, Folks... Thanks for all the tidbits and thoughts on valve trombones; I appreciate it very much.

I kinked out on the 'valve' aspect, sorry to say, and picked up a nice Bach student model slide trombone at a local pawn shop. Let me tell you - there are a lot of pawn shops in the greater Houston metro area.

I shelled out the exhorbitant sum of $130.00 (that's including tax) and wound up with a great slide (my Dad was very impressed), very decent horn (a few scratches, very few dings) and a nice hard shell case, too. I figured that if I could muster a good tone I'd try and spend a bit more for a valve trombone later. I've had a blast with it so far.

I got together with my Dad the 4th of July - it was a great time. I lent him an extra trumpet of mine a few weeks back for him to practice on; I think it has occupied his mind some. He showed me a few scales on the trombone and was quite complimentary on my mid range and lower tone (as a retired pastor he couldn't honest say much good about my upper range tone...I'm sure you all understand that at first... ).

We used to duet in churches playing, "When the Saints Go Marching In" and always had a great time of it; me on the trumpet and him on trombone. While not nearly so proficient on the trombone, by the end of the afternoon we performed a trombone duet "When the Saints..." just for our own pleasure, of course. It was a thrill.

It was a great time together; he's 88 now and I'm 47. Again, many of you probably know what it's like to see parents fade. When I called him the next day, a few hundred miles away, he teared up and told me, "It was one of our best times..."

Thank God for music. And for great parents, too.

And again - thanks for your tips - I do hope to pick up a valve trombone sometime in the future.
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Jonathan Milam
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Mouthpieces: Marcinkiewicz, Curry, Kanstul, Bach
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jhaysom
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll second the recommendation for the King 2B. I used to have a Blessing but after trying a King 2B at a jam session, I just had to buy one. It hasn't disappointed me. Beautiful warm tone and very easy to play.
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excelsiorcornetband
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some valve trombones that I've liked over the years:
• Bach Strad (that's what I play now)
• Bach Strad bass trumpet (rather pricy)
• King 2B (narrow wrap is not very ergonomic)
• 1950s/60s Olds (good all-around v-bone)
• 1920s/30s Conn 4G (very good for trumpeters because of the better balance and smaller bore)
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