• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Cheater Mouthpieces?


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> High Range Development
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Macdaddy757
Veteran Member


Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 226
Location: Monroe, Louisiana

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do people pretend that they know everyones playing situation. Playing on more than one piece is bad? what?

Quote:
because the person who is switching doesn't seem to want to actually practice and gain the strength/stamina to play highly efficient and well in all the ranges.


I switch because it is way more efficiant to play on a mouthpiece that fits the situation. It is stupid to say that I switch because I dont want to practice. I practice and have the stamina to do it but do not want. I would never play my Yamaha 14B4 in a lead situation. Your statement is very ignorant. Stick to improving your stamina/strength instead of making broad statements are not valid.
_________________
Shelby McCarty
www.shelbymccarty.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dale Proctor
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9343
Location: Heart of Dixie

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think there's anything wrong with switching mouthpieces sometimes to fit the playing situation, but I'm still self conscious when, out of the corner of my eye, I see "non-switchers" watching me switch. They usually ask "what's that one?". Maybe I'm setting a bad example for people on down the trumpet line.....
_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
giakara
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Jul 2003
Posts: 3826
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always have in my case six pieces specialy at the studio calls becose i dont now what i am ask to play so i need a full "armory" of pieces just to make sure , am i a "cheater" player ?


Regards
_________________
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Philikor7
New Member


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3
Location: VA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that it's cheating, like others have said you use the right equipment to get the job done. Prior to reading this I had not heard of "cheater mouthpieces", but I had my mouthpiece's shank drilled out and that helped me play louder and higher.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skootchy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1661
Location: Naugatuck, CT

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it cheating if you use a 3 piece system??
_________________
Praise him with the sound of the trumpet! Ps. 150:3
>=iii=O
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DCB1
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 1944
Location: Jacksonville, Florida

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skootchy wrote:
Is it cheating if you use a 3 piece system??


Definitely ! That way you can "cheat" 3 ways.

Peace
_________________
DCB <><
John 14:6
Member since 2001
Curry
Bach
Selmer Radial
Kanstul
Holton
Amati
Conn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
skootchy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1661
Location: Naugatuck, CT

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So basically it's a Menage a Trois??
_________________
Praise him with the sound of the trumpet! Ps. 150:3
>=iii=O
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Juergen
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 590
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are just jealous that you can play better than them thus they blame it on this "non standard" (1.5C,3C,5C,7C) mouthpiece and decide that it isn't fair about call you a cheater. "Cheating" is fun though.
_________________
Go [(Blue))>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dracklyle
Regular Member


Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 41
Location: Eugene, OR

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I confess Im a cheater. It all depends on the person. One of the best lead players I know plays everything on a Bach 1/4C.
_________________
Yamaha ytr8335gs
Yamaha ytr8310z
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bkonstans1
Veteran Member


Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 297
Location: Aurora, Illinois

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll throw in my two cents just for the heck of it.

I switch mouthpieces. I use a GR 3M for Concert Band and Orchestra playing, and a Curry 3Z (slightly shallower and more of a V cup) for jazz playing. My private lesson teacher is one of those people who like to use one mouthpiece for everything. He and I have had discussions on the issue many times (all of which have ended in me conceding ). My argument comes from the fact that that I get a differant sound for jazz on the Curry and a sound for orchestra/band on the GR. His argument is that I should build my chops up and play a Bach 1 1/2C like he does. Like I said, I try not to argue with my elders, so I usually concede whenever the conversation comes up.

My own personal opinion on the term "cheater mouthpiece" is this:
People who use this term generally seem to think that the mouthpiece is being switched for an increase in range alone, while that is clearly not the case.

I think that switching (when done correctly and for the right uses ie not just to improve your range) can be very effective.

Like I said, its just my two cents.
_________________
Bennett Konstans
University of Illinois, Chicago Brass Band, Cavaliers Drum and Bugle Corps

Bach Strad Bb, Yamaha Xeno C, Yamaha Cornet, Couesnon Flugelhorn. GR Mouthpieces
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Professor Fox
New Member


Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depending upon how exposed the situation is a "cheater" or shallow mouthpiece can even be useful in some symphonic band situations too. I haven't tried it in an orchestra yet but it could have practical applications there too.

With a shallower mouthpiece the projection straight ahead is enhanced. Along with the ease of producing a solid upper register tone. So if the goal is to survive a long drawn out FF or louder Wagner Opera or something the shallower mouthpiece could relieve a lot of pressure on the trumpet player. The tone will project with less effort and any register issues are enhanced. Assuming you can use the shallower mouthpiece.

Once the more condensed tone hits the back wall much of the edgy shallower mouthpiece tone is gone.

My friend can not play anything shallower than a Schilke 17. A real shame since this limits his endurance and useful range.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lh
Claude Gordon Forum Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 3137
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last week, on the 16th, I used a cheater-club..... I admit it.

I was really dragging, and when I got up to my approach shot, I had about 85 yds to the hole. The rest of my foursome was shocked and horrified when I produced a 52* gap wedge from my bag, instead of the sand wedge I would normally use. I left the ball about six feet from the hole. (first time for everything)

They said, "Dave, we are ashamed of you. We didn't know you were a cheater-club user. Real golfers should be able to strike any shot with any club, and have it go the right distance, from any lie and in any weather. Furthermore, some of us were talking, and we think you should use only one club from tee to green." (now they really didn't say this... I'm simply illustrating my point... poetic license and all)

It's only about the results... pick equipment that works best for you in the context of your playing situation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
giakara
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Jul 2003
Posts: 3826
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the piece is a heavy one you are a megatone cheater ? .


Regards
_________________
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9828
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Definitive Answer:

In my 25 years playing as a full time professional, my experience was that most pro players who play a variety of musical styles use a variety of mouthpieces to get the job done.

This is one of the few areas where my teacher Claude Gordon and I disagreed. He always felt that it was best to find "one good mouthpiece and stick with it." This worked fine for him in his playing era and career - he played first trumpet for the CBS Staff Orchestra in the 1950's and '60's. Whether he was playing for "I Love Lucy" or any of the big Columbia movies of the time, there wasn't a whole lot of tonality change he had to accomplish.

Things are different now in the commercial/studio world. A top player might be doing a "Gladiator" type soundtrack in the morning, followed by a TV show recording with "Earth, Wind & Fire" type brass tracks that afternoon. The player who thinks he can accomplish that wide a range of tonality on one mouthpiece is fooling himself (and he won't be fooling the producer or contractor...).

That said, to me, the image of the "cheater" mouthpiece is a negative one that represents a mouthpiece that should be avoided. It implies a radically small, shallow mouthpiece that in essence, plays the high notes for the player. This never happens and this never works. Too often, the only thing "cheated" is the player - out of a potential career.

For younger up-and-coming players (meaning Jr. High, High School, and for the most part, University Players), the "find a good mouthpiece and stick with it" advice is really golden. When you are developing the "feel" or "knack" of how to play a brass instrument, every time you make an equipment change, you are throwing everything out of whack. Usually a good, middle of the road size such as a Bob Reeves 43C or a Bach 3C will be just fine for the player.

Perhaps as the player reaches the final years of University and has been playing for at least 5 or 6 years, a complimentary "B-Cup" mouthpiece can be added to darken things up a bit for the Orchestral playing (such as a 3B or Reeves 43B). Unfortunately, most uninformed players take the opposite approach - they try to go for a shallower mouthpiece to brighten things up and make high notes easier for Jazz Band - in reality, it is much easier to brighten one's tone then to darken it. And high notes are a matter of proper developement, not a shallower mouthpiece. I think the best approach is to use a C-Cup mouthpiece for the jazz band and go to a deeper B cup for the Orchestra. Note that the Reeves 43C and the Bach 3C are among the shallower of the standard C-cup type mouthpieces; so they tend to work pretty well for giving a nice bright sound and high notes are certainly not a problem on them for a properly developed player (Charlie Davis and Arturo Sandoval come to mind).

I advise anyone that wants to have the best chances of making it, to stay away from radically big or radically small mouthpieces. I think 99% of the players will do best with middle of the road mouthpieces, and as they become proficient, perhaps using slightly shallower and slightly deeper versions to augment different required tonalities for different styles of music - always with the same cup diameter, rim size and rim contour.

Lastly, most players play mouthpieces that have too restrictive of backbores and throats. Despite the common opinions, a bigger throat and backbore make playing easier and make high notes easier (when the player is playing correctly and using his air power and air control via the arching forward tongue correctly).

I recommend a #22 Throat and Large Backbore for all Symphonic and Orchestral style playing, and perhaps a #26 or #25 Throat and still larger than normal Backbore for all commercial and "Lead" type playing.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
_________________
Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
destinojz
Regular Member


Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Prudenville, Mi.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: cheater mouthpieces Reply with quote

I agree totally with John about the thinking of cheater mouthpieces. With today's commercial playing you have to use the right tool for the right job. Using a shallower MP doesn't give you anything more than you already have. I too use Reeves pieces and have added 43M and 43S to my working collection. I use the 43C and 43M for the most part but again it depends on the type of sound that I need. I can use one MP and get almost any sound I need but the change of MP's makes the job easier Advice to the younger players, learn and develop on a good middle of the road MP before you start changing equipment, and don't use equipment as an excuse.
_________________
J. Kot
Destino and Kanstul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skootchy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1661
Location: Naugatuck, CT

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: cheater mouthpieces Reply with quote

destinojz wrote:
Advice to the younger players, learn and develop on a good middle of the road MP before you start changing equipment, and don't use equipment as an excuse.


And please eliminate the word "cheater" from your vocabulary as it just identifies you as not knowing what you are talking about.
_________________
Praise him with the sound of the trumpet! Ps. 150:3
>=iii=O
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
destinojz
Regular Member


Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Prudenville, Mi.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Skootchy, easy, I didn't say that the term Cheater was a legit term I only quoted the term as it is the title of the subject. The part that you quoted form me you will notice that I didn't use the word term Cheater. And remember it is Sunday!!!
_________________
J. Kot
Destino and Kanstul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skootchy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1661
Location: Naugatuck, CT

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

destinojz wrote:
Hey Skootchy, easy, I didn't say that the term Cheater was a legit term I only quoted the term as it is the title of the subject. The part that you quoted form me you will notice that I didn't use the word term Cheater. And remember it is Sunday!!!

Oh wow, I am sorry. I can see how that came through wrong...Not you man! I am in total agreement with your post. I was referring to those "youngsters" that repeat stuff they know nothing about in an effort to impress someone. I was just adding to your advice. Again sorry.
_________________
Praise him with the sound of the trumpet! Ps. 150:3
>=iii=O
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
destinojz
Regular Member


Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Prudenville, Mi.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the come back. There was no one upset here. Happy trumpet playing and have fun.
_________________
J. Kot
Destino and Kanstul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dbacon
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 8592

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a difference between a crutch and a tool.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> High Range Development All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group