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Macdaddy757 Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Jun 2005 Posts: 226 Location: Monroe, Louisiana
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Why do people pretend that they know everyones playing situation. Playing on more than one piece is bad? what?
Quote: | because the person who is switching doesn't seem to want to actually practice and gain the strength/stamina to play highly efficient and well in all the ranges. |
I switch because it is way more efficiant to play on a mouthpiece that fits the situation. It is stupid to say that I switch because I dont want to practice. I practice and have the stamina to do it but do not want. I would never play my Yamaha 14B4 in a lead situation. Your statement is very ignorant. Stick to improving your stamina/strength instead of making broad statements are not valid. _________________ Shelby McCarty
www.shelbymccarty.net |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9382 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think there's anything wrong with switching mouthpieces sometimes to fit the playing situation, but I'm still self conscious when, out of the corner of my eye, I see "non-switchers" watching me switch. They usually ask "what's that one?". Maybe I'm setting a bad example for people on down the trumpet line..... _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3833 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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I always have in my case six pieces specialy at the studio calls becose i dont now what i am ask to play so i need a full "armory" of pieces just to make sure , am i a "cheater" player ?
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 and 800 LB cornets
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Philikor7 New Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 3 Location: VA
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think that it's cheating, like others have said you use the right equipment to get the job done. Prior to reading this I had not heard of "cheater mouthpieces", but I had my mouthpiece's shank drilled out and that helped me play louder and higher. |
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skootchy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 1661 Location: Naugatuck, CT
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Is it cheating if you use a 3 piece system?? _________________ Praise him with the sound of the trumpet! Ps. 150:3
>=iii=O |
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DCB1 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 1944 Location: Jacksonville, Florida
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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skootchy wrote: | Is it cheating if you use a 3 piece system?? |
Definitely ! That way you can "cheat" 3 ways.
Peace _________________ DCB <><
John 14:6
Member since 2001
Curry
Bach
Selmer Radial
Kanstul
Holton
Amati
Conn |
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skootchy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 1661 Location: Naugatuck, CT
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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So basically it's a Menage a Trois?? _________________ Praise him with the sound of the trumpet! Ps. 150:3
>=iii=O |
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Juergen Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2007 Posts: 590 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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They are just jealous that you can play better than them thus they blame it on this "non standard" (1.5C,3C,5C,7C) mouthpiece and decide that it isn't fair about call you a cheater. "Cheating" is fun though. _________________ Go [(Blue))> |
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Dracklyle Regular Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 41 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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I confess Im a cheater. It all depends on the person. One of the best lead players I know plays everything on a Bach 1/4C. _________________ Yamaha ytr8335gs
Yamaha ytr8310z |
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bkonstans1 Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 297 Location: Aurora, Illinois
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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I'll throw in my two cents just for the heck of it.
I switch mouthpieces. I use a GR 3M for Concert Band and Orchestra playing, and a Curry 3Z (slightly shallower and more of a V cup) for jazz playing. My private lesson teacher is one of those people who like to use one mouthpiece for everything. He and I have had discussions on the issue many times (all of which have ended in me conceding ). My argument comes from the fact that that I get a differant sound for jazz on the Curry and a sound for orchestra/band on the GR. His argument is that I should build my chops up and play a Bach 1 1/2C like he does. Like I said, I try not to argue with my elders, so I usually concede whenever the conversation comes up.
My own personal opinion on the term "cheater mouthpiece" is this:
People who use this term generally seem to think that the mouthpiece is being switched for an increase in range alone, while that is clearly not the case.
I think that switching (when done correctly and for the right uses ie not just to improve your range) can be very effective.
Like I said, its just my two cents. _________________ Bennett Konstans
University of Illinois, Chicago Brass Band, Cavaliers Drum and Bugle Corps
Bach Strad Bb, Yamaha Xeno C, Yamaha Cornet, Couesnon Flugelhorn. GR Mouthpieces |
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Professor Fox New Member
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 9
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Depending upon how exposed the situation is a "cheater" or shallow mouthpiece can even be useful in some symphonic band situations too. I haven't tried it in an orchestra yet but it could have practical applications there too.
With a shallower mouthpiece the projection straight ahead is enhanced. Along with the ease of producing a solid upper register tone. So if the goal is to survive a long drawn out FF or louder Wagner Opera or something the shallower mouthpiece could relieve a lot of pressure on the trumpet player. The tone will project with less effort and any register issues are enhanced. Assuming you can use the shallower mouthpiece.
Once the more condensed tone hits the back wall much of the edgy shallower mouthpiece tone is gone.
My friend can not play anything shallower than a Schilke 17. A real shame since this limits his endurance and useful range. |
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lh Claude Gordon Forum Moderator
Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 3137 Location: London UK
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Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Last week, on the 16th, I used a cheater-club..... I admit it.
I was really dragging, and when I got up to my approach shot, I had about 85 yds to the hole. The rest of my foursome was shocked and horrified when I produced a 52* gap wedge from my bag, instead of the sand wedge I would normally use. I left the ball about six feet from the hole. (first time for everything)
They said, "Dave, we are ashamed of you. We didn't know you were a cheater-club user. Real golfers should be able to strike any shot with any club, and have it go the right distance, from any lie and in any weather. Furthermore, some of us were talking, and we think you should use only one club from tee to green." (now they really didn't say this... I'm simply illustrating my point... poetic license and all)
It's only about the results... pick equipment that works best for you in the context of your playing situation. |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3833 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: |
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If the piece is a heavy one you are a megatone cheater ? .
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 and 800 LB cornets
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9831 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: |
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The Definitive Answer:
In my 25 years playing as a full time professional, my experience was that most pro players who play a variety of musical styles use a variety of mouthpieces to get the job done.
This is one of the few areas where my teacher Claude Gordon and I disagreed. He always felt that it was best to find "one good mouthpiece and stick with it." This worked fine for him in his playing era and career - he played first trumpet for the CBS Staff Orchestra in the 1950's and '60's. Whether he was playing for "I Love Lucy" or any of the big Columbia movies of the time, there wasn't a whole lot of tonality change he had to accomplish.
Things are different now in the commercial/studio world. A top player might be doing a "Gladiator" type soundtrack in the morning, followed by a TV show recording with "Earth, Wind & Fire" type brass tracks that afternoon. The player who thinks he can accomplish that wide a range of tonality on one mouthpiece is fooling himself (and he won't be fooling the producer or contractor...).
That said, to me, the image of the "cheater" mouthpiece is a negative one that represents a mouthpiece that should be avoided. It implies a radically small, shallow mouthpiece that in essence, plays the high notes for the player. This never happens and this never works. Too often, the only thing "cheated" is the player - out of a potential career.
For younger up-and-coming players (meaning Jr. High, High School, and for the most part, University Players), the "find a good mouthpiece and stick with it" advice is really golden. When you are developing the "feel" or "knack" of how to play a brass instrument, every time you make an equipment change, you are throwing everything out of whack. Usually a good, middle of the road size such as a Bob Reeves 43C or a Bach 3C will be just fine for the player.
Perhaps as the player reaches the final years of University and has been playing for at least 5 or 6 years, a complimentary "B-Cup" mouthpiece can be added to darken things up a bit for the Orchestral playing (such as a 3B or Reeves 43B). Unfortunately, most uninformed players take the opposite approach - they try to go for a shallower mouthpiece to brighten things up and make high notes easier for Jazz Band - in reality, it is much easier to brighten one's tone then to darken it. And high notes are a matter of proper developement, not a shallower mouthpiece. I think the best approach is to use a C-Cup mouthpiece for the jazz band and go to a deeper B cup for the Orchestra. Note that the Reeves 43C and the Bach 3C are among the shallower of the standard C-cup type mouthpieces; so they tend to work pretty well for giving a nice bright sound and high notes are certainly not a problem on them for a properly developed player (Charlie Davis and Arturo Sandoval come to mind).
I advise anyone that wants to have the best chances of making it, to stay away from radically big or radically small mouthpieces. I think 99% of the players will do best with middle of the road mouthpieces, and as they become proficient, perhaps using slightly shallower and slightly deeper versions to augment different required tonalities for different styles of music - always with the same cup diameter, rim size and rim contour.
Lastly, most players play mouthpieces that have too restrictive of backbores and throats. Despite the common opinions, a bigger throat and backbore make playing easier and make high notes easier (when the player is playing correctly and using his air power and air control via the arching forward tongue correctly).
I recommend a #22 Throat and Large Backbore for all Symphonic and Orchestral style playing, and perhaps a #26 or #25 Throat and still larger than normal Backbore for all commercial and "Lead" type playing.
Best wishes,
John Mohan _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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destinojz Regular Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2008 Posts: 30 Location: Prudenville, Mi.
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: cheater mouthpieces |
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I agree totally with John about the thinking of cheater mouthpieces. With today's commercial playing you have to use the right tool for the right job. Using a shallower MP doesn't give you anything more than you already have. I too use Reeves pieces and have added 43M and 43S to my working collection. I use the 43C and 43M for the most part but again it depends on the type of sound that I need. I can use one MP and get almost any sound I need but the change of MP's makes the job easier Advice to the younger players, learn and develop on a good middle of the road MP before you start changing equipment, and don't use equipment as an excuse. _________________ J. Kot
Destino and Kanstul |
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skootchy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 1661 Location: Naugatuck, CT
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Re: cheater mouthpieces |
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destinojz wrote: | Advice to the younger players, learn and develop on a good middle of the road MP before you start changing equipment, and don't use equipment as an excuse. |
And please eliminate the word "cheater" from your vocabulary as it just identifies you as not knowing what you are talking about. _________________ Praise him with the sound of the trumpet! Ps. 150:3
>=iii=O |
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destinojz Regular Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2008 Posts: 30 Location: Prudenville, Mi.
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Hey Skootchy, easy, I didn't say that the term Cheater was a legit term I only quoted the term as it is the title of the subject. The part that you quoted form me you will notice that I didn't use the word term Cheater. And remember it is Sunday!!! _________________ J. Kot
Destino and Kanstul |
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skootchy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 1661 Location: Naugatuck, CT
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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destinojz wrote: | Hey Skootchy, easy, I didn't say that the term Cheater was a legit term I only quoted the term as it is the title of the subject. The part that you quoted form me you will notice that I didn't use the word term Cheater. And remember it is Sunday!!! |
Oh wow, I am sorry. I can see how that came through wrong...Not you man! I am in total agreement with your post. I was referring to those "youngsters" that repeat stuff they know nothing about in an effort to impress someone. I was just adding to your advice. Again sorry. _________________ Praise him with the sound of the trumpet! Ps. 150:3
>=iii=O |
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destinojz Regular Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2008 Posts: 30 Location: Prudenville, Mi.
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the come back. There was no one upset here. Happy trumpet playing and have fun. _________________ J. Kot
Destino and Kanstul |
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dbacon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: |
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There's a difference between a crutch and a tool. |
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