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Bach Mercedes trumpet history/timeline



 
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parrym
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Joined: 24 Aug 2008
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Location: Lancaster, California

PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject: Bach Mercedes trumpet history/timeline Reply with quote

I purchased a Bach Mercedes off of ebay a few months ago. I trying to figure out the history of the Mercedes line. Looks like the Mercedes line stopped in the 70s and the Mercedes II line took off later. The Mercedes I bought has a sn of 223197 which puts it around 1982. It doesn't say Mercedes II on the bell, just Mercedes. Anybody know the history of when the Mercedes (I) stopped and the Mercedes II started? Curious if I have the Mercedes/Mercedes I or a Mercedes II even it doesn't say II on the bell. Also, above the stamped sn is another number etched, E198569, wonder if that means anything.
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rockford
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rough timeline is that in the 1930's-40's the Mercedes was a hodgepodge of bells, bores and leadpipes. Generally they were made of parts that cosmetically didn't come out well enough to be called a "Stradivarius". In the 1950's a standard Mercedes model was the same as a Medium bore Strad with a 38 bell and 7 leadpipe. There were no options. In the Mt. Vernon era the Mercedes had a 2 piece 38 bell, medium bore and 7 leadpipe. The later Mt. Vernon Mercedes also had the two piece 38 bell,7 leadpipe and a .456 bore which was halfway between the M and ML bores. These were professional instruments but with cosmetic compromises to keep the cost down. The Elkhart Mercedes were intermediate level instruments and Mercedes 2 were student level instruments.
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Bill Siegfried
NY and Mt. Vernon Bach Bb trumpets and cornets. Bach Artisan C, Bach C cornet, Schilke G, Yamaha Eb and D, piccolo A/Bb, flugelhorn, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175
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Thumper
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had mine since about 1968 getting ready to get her 2nd replating very soon.
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KansasTrumpet
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumper wrote:
I've had mine since about 1968 getting ready to get her 2nd replating very soon.



Do the top and bottom caps on yours look like a bach strad or similar to a bundy? Is there a brace for the tuning slide? If yes is it in the slide or on the body. Thanks in advance.


DQ
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Thumper
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KansasTrumpet wrote:
Thumper wrote:
I've had mine since about 1968 getting ready to get her 2nd replating very soon.



Do the top and bottom caps on yours look like a bach strad or similar to a bundy? Is there a brace for the tuning slide? If yes is it in the slide or on the body. Thanks in advance. brace is on the body, and I can't really say about the caps as I haven't been around a Strad or really paid that much attention


DQ
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Peter Gunn
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Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently acquired a Bach Mercedes made in 1970 and side by side it is the same as a Strad. It does not have the brace on the tuning cook and the stop on the third slide. I have taken it in for some cosmetic work to Indy. I was told by the stampings on the bell that it was made during a period when there was stampede on student models. These models used and were fitted with the 'standard' bells and they were running short.

After reading many posts and speaking to some older band directors, I come to believe that the middle line Bachs were of the better valve casings with the less expensive bell. If I am wrong please correct me.

This horn plays with some zing! It more than likely has a Strad bell because of the non standard makings for its day when produced. I'd call it a keeper!
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Thumper
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

where in Indy are you taking it?
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Peter Gunn
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have taken it over to Bob at Sam Ash. I have heard good things about Bob and he has a wealth of information. I get to check out all the New Fenders to boot!
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Thumper
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be sending mine to Tom Green in Elkhart for the replating.
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parrym
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a later Mt. Vernon Mercedes that sounds great (1964)! I was surprised that the early 80s Mercedes sounded as good as it does considering its history. Thanks for the info.
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Thumper
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KansasTrumpet wrote:
Thumper wrote:
I've had mine since about 1968 getting ready to get her 2nd replating very soon.



Do the top and bottom caps on yours look like a bach strad or similar to a bundy? Is there a brace for the tuning slide? If yes is it in the slide or on the body. Thanks in advance.


DQ
My top and bottom caps look just like a Strad's
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KansasTrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have recently acquired a mercedes that has all of the earmarks of the better version of this horn, but it has the bundy style top and bottom caps. I am beginning to believe that these are not original. The horn is a mercedes not a mercedes II and it has two piece valve casings with nickel on top.

DQ
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parrym
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both my 64 and my 80s Mercedes have the Strad type valve caps.
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godshorn8678
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what would one expect to pay for a Mt. Vernon Mercedes in good condition?
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