• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Hail Damaged New Car


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Lounge
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
gillie89
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 732
Location: York, PA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:32 am    Post subject: Hail Damaged New Car Reply with quote

Hi Guys/Gals,
I'm betting my bottom dollar someone can answer this question for me.

When shopping for a new car and the sales person tells you that the car was damaged by hail and then repaired by paintless dent removal (by the manufacturer), does that become a bargaining chip if you can't even notice that the car was ever damaged?

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Gillie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
westview1900
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1617

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say yes. In this market, it's hard enough to sell perfect cars. I'd try to talk the dealer down because of the hail damage.
_________________
Carpe Diem
and Plan for Tomorrow
Pat Paulsen for president
http://www.paulsen.com/
Stephen Colbert for president
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CJH
Regular Member


Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the hail damage show up in the car's carfax report? If so, I'd argue that it will hurt resale value. That's a bargaining chip for you.

Regardless, what I'd do is first tell him what price you want to pay for the car. When he scoffs at you, tell him you are sorry but you are not comfortable with the fact that the car has been damaged and repaired, and that you are going to make a trip to the next dealership and buy a new one that hasn't been. Get up, walk towards door purposefully, and I'll bet you he won't let you leave without at least making you a counter offer.

Chris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
gillie89
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 732
Location: York, PA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The salesman told me "by law" they have to disclose the fact of the hail damage. So I'm guessing it would be recorded somewhere. That's a good point.

I just watched a video of paintless dent repair. The guy made it look pretty easy by just massaging the dent from behind. But I guess I need to know how badly damaged the car was and where the damage was. If it was all over the hood and roof (this is a hatchback, no trunk), that would make a big difference to me no matter how good the repair. To me, it would be a difference worth haggling over. But if it was just one or two little pings, I don't think I'd care as much.

You can bet when I go back to look at the car, I'll be looking more closely.

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

G
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lmf
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 2190
Location: Indiana USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why give the car salesman what he asks today? There is much competition today. The car has hail damage and should be discounted accordinly whether or not it has been fixed. Would you pay a high price for a car that looks great, but you know it has been in a crash?

Why pay top price for the car? Do your research and offer what you consider to be a fair price. If the salesman won't go for it, walk away. It probably isn't the auto for you.

He may ask you back, but if he doesn't...big deal! There other cars and dealerships wishing to sell to you.

Best wishes,

Lloyd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tom turner
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 6600
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the car was damaged and required repairing, and listed via Carfax, then you'll be stunned later when you find out it will bring less money when you are ready to trade it . . . a LOT less and you'll also need to disclose it then too!

Thus, in the long run you aren't saving money . . . just spending less today . . . but getting less when you trade it and need the money for something else.

HECK YES . . .

Beat that sales slut . . . AND his sales manager like a DRUM! EVERYTHING in today's economy is a "Buyer's Market." Folks aren't buying many cars and the lots are full of 'em everywhere. If they can't move 'em before the floor plan money is due, they'll lose a bunch on the car.

Thus . . . if they think you don't give a rip to buy from them . . . but that you WILL be buying somewhere soon, they come to you on their knees. Then, WALK again!!! Give 'em a card and tell them not to call you until they are SERIOUS about selling a car. Then walk out. They'll call you within 24 hours if you have a salesman and dealer who truly wants to sell cars!

Beat 'em like a drum . . . and remember, you are losing a bunch upon resale on the hail damaged car. You might also want to check the new cars right now too. As I said, there are a LOT of nervous car dealers right now who are sitting on a time bomb. They NEED to move those cars!

T.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 6637
Location: Monument, CO

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure it doesn't have a salvage title (not likely just for hail damage, but could cause all kinds of grief, from getting insurance to future sales).
_________________
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 7943
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot believe that a hard enough impact by hail followed stretching the dimple back the other way wouldn't weaken or damage the paint and shorten its life.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
murph66
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 867
Location: Clinton, MS

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone who has handled hail damage claims and has had hail damage to his own car (twice) I can testify that a lot of hail damage can be cured by leaving the car in the sun for a while. Much of the damage will come out on its own. Also, as crazy as it sounds, putting a towel over the damage and using an iron can also get a lot of the dents out.
The last time the hail hit it, I didn't even have it repaired and had no problem trading it in on a new car several months later.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
gillie89
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 732
Location: York, PA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of good points being made here. Thanks.

Makes me wonder how many new cars sitting on the dealer's lot are damaged by hail every year? Do all the dealers disclose this info about the cars or do they just get out there and repair the damage before anyone notices?

The dealer I visited says he had to disclose the info by law but there was no written report of the damage anywhere. I don't like the sound of that. I'd rather know the extent of the damage/see photos of the damage and then make up my own mind.

Although I know the best repair guys can make a crushed trumpet bell look new, I'd be less inclined to buy a new trumpet with an extensively repaired bell then a trumpet that had a small dent taken out.

I, too, wonder what dent removal does to the integrity of the metal and the paint. I'll also check into the "salvage title" thing.

Thanks for all the replies. If anything exciting happens, I'll keep y'all posted. In the meantime, I'll keep looking around.

FWIW, I'm looking at the Subaru Impreza Outback Sport Hatchback, 2.5 4 cylinder, 170 hp. If I consider the turbocharged GT or the WRX, both well over 200 hp, do I absolutely have to use the 90+ octane gas or could I use a lesser octane? Is it a performance thing or a damage-the-engine thing? My brother alternates grades in his Maxima (which recommends premium grade gas) but what about a turbo? Anybody have experience with that?

G
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dave Mickley
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 749
Location: Indianapolis

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hail - I knew a guy who would fix hail damage with dry ice and an electric heat gun, worked real well [most of the time]

turbo - a lot of fun and yes you better use the good go juice if you want to keep it running right [detonation is an ugly sight] check with your ins. agent before buying a turbo charged car [right hose?]
_________________
formerly known as old geezer Dave
C7c,bell heat treated
Yam. 231 Fl. 15383
Weril Cornet Lo 7535
King Master Cornet 295628
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gillie89
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 732
Location: York, PA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"detonation"

higher insurance rates

Why can't I have my mid life crisis car with no strings attached?

G
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
max3k
Veteran Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 232

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're not happy with the condition of the car. Don't buy it. I wouldnt waste my time debating it. Just move on to the next one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CJH
Regular Member


Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, you gotta stick with 91 or higher with a turbo. The reason? The turbo compresses the air/gas mixture much more, and lower octane fuel tends to spontaneously combust at a lower pressure than higher octane fuel. So you'll get a lot of knocking with low octane in a turbo, which can and does damage the engine.

That said, I think most modern engines (at least, my speed3 does) will compensate for lower octane fuel by lowering the compression somehow to avoid knocking... I don't know the details of how this works. But the point is if you are stuck having to put 87 in for some reason, you can still drive the car. This probably isn't a good thing to make a habit of, though.

Chris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
MrClean
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 2050
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Newer cars have knock sensors that will retard the spark if low octane gas is detected. If you use lower octane gas, the car will be fine, but you will lose power, sometimes substantially. However, the converse is not true. If you use higher octane gas than the manufacturer recommends, you will see no improvement in performance, since nobody makes a system that will advance the spark in case higher-than-recommended octane levels are detected. The knock-sensors only work in one direction, for the sole purpose of protecting the engine.

You're more likely to encounter problems with gas with too high a concentration of ethanol, or with contaminates in it.

J
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gillie89
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 732
Location: York, PA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice. How I ever got to looking at the Mazdaspeed3 is beyond me, but it is amazing!

The Volkswagen GTI and the Mazda dealer both told me today I could get away with 89 octane with a decrease in performance and it would not damage the engine or void any warranties. The GTI automatically compensates for the lower octane as previously posted.

The Speed3 made my insurance jump the most!

G
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
razeontherock
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 8693
Location: The land of GR and Getzen

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

murph66 wrote:
as crazy as it sounds, putting a towel over the damage and using an iron can also get a lot of the dents out.


Sounds like this is on the "5 mile an hour" plastic type stuff, not metal?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
murph66
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 867
Location: Clinton, MS

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No- The heat expands the metal and pops the dent out. This wont work if the dent has a sharp edge in it, but a smooth concave dent will often pop out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dave Mickley
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 749
Location: Indianapolis

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

murph is right - the metal has a memory and wants to go back to the original position. The man using the dry ice on the dents said the extreme cold pulled the dents out and if he didn't use a heat gun on it real quick in a few days the dent would return but not as bad.
_________________
formerly known as old geezer Dave
C7c,bell heat treated
Yam. 231 Fl. 15383
Weril Cornet Lo 7535
King Master Cornet 295628
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
razeontherock
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 8693
Location: The land of GR and Getzen

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing the stuff you can learn on a trumpet site!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group