1928 22B Conn NY Symphony

M3521 · Regular Member Joined: 05 Jan 2013 Posts: 14

I found a 1928 22B Conn NY Symphony trumpet for sale locally. From what I've read it seems like a this is a really good sounding horn so for the right price I might be interested.

I've done a little bit of research and have found that these horns might sell anywhere from $150-$500 depending on the condition. This particular trumpet is silver plated and could use a polish, but all the plating is there. No major dents. I haven't tested the valves for leakage but the seller claims that the trumpet is in good condition. It does not include a rotor tuning slide. From what I understand, this was optional.

What do you think a 1928 22B Conn NY Symphony in this condition is worth?

I'm going to check it out in person tomorrow. I'll post pictures if it comes home with me.

Dale Proctor · Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:40 pm Post subject:

Not seeing it, based on the description I'd guess $250-$300.
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baboo · Veteran Member Joined: 06 Mar 2010 Posts: 164

valves are the most important part I think. I payed 800$ for mine, but it is gold-plated, engraved and plays great. the valves need a thicker oil but they are not extremely leaky. I probably could have found a cheaper one but I live in Europe and I had one chance to pick the horn in Hornucopia. It was the best playing one of a bunch of trumpets.
300-500$ is probably the price range, if the valves are good. for a pro horn, it is peanuts , so if it plays well- don't hesitate!

M3521 · Regular Member Joined: 05 Jan 2013 Posts: 14

Thank you for the replies! I'm a fairly new player so this will be my first time evaluating a used horn.

Is this a trumpet that will hold its value over the years? This isn't a requirement but more a curiosity. I'm buying this to play, not necessarily as an investment. It would be a nice perk if it held its value or was worth more in the future though!

Jon Arnold · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2026

Since it is local, I would try before you buy. If it is a good player, I would pay 2-300 for it. If it needs any work, I would offer less. Good luck! Let us know how it turns out.

ltkije1966 · Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:38 am Post subject:

I paid $600 for a basement find that has never been played. Absolute pristine condition with beautiful engraving, gold wash in the bell and immaculate silver satin finish.

Yep, it plays nice. These were professional horns made for the NY Phil, is my understanding.

I agree with the previous opinions about pricing.

I believe this used horn will not loose any value over time, depending on how much wear you give it.

Most of these horns come with two main tuning slides, one with the rotary (Bb to A) and one without. My horn plays better with the rotary slide.

I suggest budgeting an additional $100 for a pro chem clean and have a qualified repair/tech look at the valve alignment. A little adjustment can go a long way!

Good luck.
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Scott Kuehn

M3521 · Regular Member Joined: 05 Jan 2013 Posts: 14

I ended up purchasing the trumpet! Check out the pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/76444181@N06/sets/72157632778948424/

The valves are all stamped with the trumpet's serial number and once oiled move easily. The slides are tight.

It is in serious need of a deep clean, but shows no signs of red rot. Normal maintenance is needed (new corks and felts), but nothing major. It has a couple small dings.

The only real downside is that one of the braces needs to be resoldered. One of the valve buttons is also a mismatch. One of the bottom valve caps is stuck on (for now). I was able to talk the seller down in price a little due to these issues.

I'm going to do my best to clean it myself, but I may have to take it in for a chem cleaning.

I ran across this, so I may just do a full "tune up." http://www.thebandroom.biz/01_item_action.php?id=520

I have high hopes for this horn after a little restoration! I'll post follow up pictures along the way.

ltkije1966 · Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:34 am Post subject:

Nice looking horn. Good luck!
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Scott Kuehn

M3521 · Regular Member Joined: 05 Jan 2013 Posts: 14

After an afternoon of elbow grease the horn has been through its first cleaning. I am now convinced that this horn has been sitting for 20+ years. An incredible amount of grime was removed from the inside of this thing.

Before cleaning: http://www.flickr.com/photos/76444181@N06/sets/72157632778948424/
After cleaning: http://www.flickr.com/photos/76444181@N06/sets/72157632804042650/

Despite the removal of so much buildup, there is still a fair amount on the insides of the tubing. It's hard to tell much difference in the before and after pictures. I've decided to take it in to my local shop for an ultrasonic cleaning.

Playing it after the cleaning already makes a noticeable difference. There was so much build up in the horn that it sounded stuffy. I'm still losing air through the water keys so I don't think I'm getting the best potential sound yet.

I'll post pictures again after I get the horn back from the repair shop ultrasonic cleaning. It will probably be a couple weeks because they are backed up.

razeontherock · Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:41 pm Post subject:

derby_mute · Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:21 pm Post subject:

Nice find. I have a 1923 that's a really great horn.

Yours is missing the stop rod and nuts. Not a big deal, but I mention it just in case you were wondering what those pieces are attached to the tuning slide near the water key.

It looks to me as though the two mouthpieces in the photo are for cornet.

I think if you clean the horn really well you can skip getting a chem clean. Better to go for a pro valve adjustment. I would also recommend using a valve oil like Yamaha Vintage or Hettman's, although I find that Al Cass works fine on my horn.

It should be an easy fix to have that brace resoldered. In the meantime, if you do it gently, you could just pop it back into place - if you wanted to.

Enjoy!
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Selmer model #43
Selmer Concept
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Trumpets:
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1935 Olds French model

M3521 · Regular Member Joined: 05 Jan 2013 Posts: 14

I did see that I was missing the stop rods and nuts. I may or may not decide to order replacements.

You are also correct in that the mouthpieces are for cornet. I tested this with my mouthpiece so I didn't even notice that the mouthpieces were for cornet until I took it into the shop. I'm not sure how those ended up in the case. I don't own a cornet so I might have a couple mouthpieces up for sale soon...

I took it in to the shop for an ultrasonic cleaning. Bad news. Red rot in the bottom of the leadpipe. It wasn't noticeable even with my initial clean before sending it in. The repair technician says that it is possible to fix. He's going to do that last repair then get it back to me early next week. I was very upset to hear that the problem exists, but glad that it should be fixable.

Photo of rot on bottom of leadpipe from repair shop: http://www.flickr.com/photos/76444181@N06/8516836719/in/photostream/

Dale Proctor · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:57 pm Post subject:

Looks a lot more like a stress crack than red rot. I believe those leadpipes are double walled - if just the outer layer is cracked, it won't hurt anything except the looks.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

yourbrass · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject:

You have a 22B in really good shape considering it was made in the mid-1920's. The leadpipe being rotted is not surprising, that baby is 85 years old! It can be patched, and when the pipe is bent back straight it may split open a bit on the rotted area. It still can be patched.

Trumpets as old as our grandparents will show wear, I think yours is looking good.
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M3521 · Regular Member Joined: 05 Jan 2013 Posts: 14

The repair technician said that it goes all the way through the leadpipe. It was not visible until after the ultrasonic clean. I haven't seen it in person myself but from the picture it looks fairly minor. He said that regular use of a leadpipe swab and diligent cleaning will prevent any future damage along the length of the leadpipe after the spot is repaired.

I've only ever heard bad things about leadpipe red rot and repairs so thanks for the words of encouragement. I'm excited to get it back and start playing it.

Brent · Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:15 am Post subject: leadpipe

If it's going to be a horn that is played regularly, would replacing the lead pipe be an option?

I had Charlie Melk replace the lead pipe on my 1938 Handcraft Imperial. It made a huge difference on how the horn plays.
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Brent

M3521 · Regular Member Joined: 05 Jan 2013 Posts: 14

Replacing the leadpipe is an option, but would be much more expensive than the solder patch. If I really fall in love with it I'll consider replacing it the future.

Brent, How much did your leadpipe replacement cost? Was it harvested off another Handcraft Imperial?

Dale Proctor · Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:04 am Post subject:

Replacing the leadpipe without changing the look of the horn will require finding a nice donor 22B pipe, which may be difficult and/or expensive. Then there's the replating issue. I've read that the leadpipe from an old Conn 15B will work, but it won't look the same, either. I used to own a ratty 1925 22B that had a different receiver and a patch on the underside of the leadpipe. It still played great. I recently sold it as a parts horn, after I found a pristine 1929 22B on eBay.

_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

bilboinsa · Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:46 am Post subject:

Congrats! I bought a great 1927 22B from a fellow TH'er. Roger Ingram got to play it and said it was a pure laser beam. Great construction, too. Tanks. No probs with snakes or other standard cleaning methods. Thinking about replating mine, but really no need to.
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Schilke B2;
Kanstul 1525;
1927 Conn 22B
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M3521 · Regular Member Joined: 05 Jan 2013 Posts: 14

I got the trumpet back from the repair shop last Tuesday, but I just got a chance to take and upload pictures. I'm really happy with the result of the cleaning.

Repairs:
Ultrasonic cleaning with new corks and felts
Resolder brace near first valve
Solder repair of red rot on bottom of leadpipe near first valve

Check out the before and after photos. These compare the trumpet after my at home cleaning to the ultrasonic cleaning result. I tried to keep the lighting consistent, but in some cases you can tell that one is brighter than the other by the color of the towel. Before pictures are on the top, after are on the bottom.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/76444181@N06/sets/72157632980416121/