Large bore trumpets

[camelbrass]

Tony,

I would be interested in your thoughts as to why you would want to design and play an instrument like that and what type of sound you would be looking for. The bore and bell size is getting into small bore bone territory and the large, shallow mouthpiece is certainly a different take on a theme. Most large bore trumpet players I know tighten up their mouthpieces to compensate.

Regards,

Trevor

[regularsopguy]

sounds like Kanstul's new bass trumpet with a small receiver

www.kanstul.com on the trombone page!
_________________
"Come with uncle and hear all proper. Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones...you are invited."

[regularsopguy]

[ldwoods]

In regards to the integral mpc, I have an idea. How about make the leadpipe and receiver solid, but allow the cup \ rim to be changed ala Warburton style screw on "tops". Just screw whatever cup \ rim you want onto the fixed backbore\receiver\leadpipe.
_________________
Larry Woods
LDWoods

[shofarguy]

[Tony Scodwell]

Trevor has hit upon something here. Guys who play large bore horns tend to compensate with smallish mouthpieces. My theory is to go with a very large bore horn and a very small [shallow] mouthpiece. My experience with my mellophonium is what brought me to this concept. At first the Kenton mellophonium section were playing on rather shallow pieces and bugging the hell out of the trumpet section cause they could play much higher for longer periods of time. Of course the notes were mellophoniumish, which is to say not trumpet like. Non the less they were high and loud, which is what I assume a lot of guys want to do these days. God knows, I was dubbed the "Maynard Ferguson of the Mellophonium" in a review of the Kenton band in England in 1963. Large bore, high notes, not killing yourself, louder than the rest of the band, come on, what's not to like here?
Tony Scodwell
Scodwell USA Trumpets and Flugelhorns
"Live In The Studio" by the Tony Scodwell Big Band now at CD Baby
Coming from Hal Leonard, "Big Band Classics featuring Tony Scodwell"

[crzytptman]

HAHA! I was right! As I was reading through this thread, I was thinking you were describing a mellophone. I was also thinking you had your tongue planted in your cheek!
I played a .484 Holton for about 8 years. As Flip measured it, the valve ports were smaller by various amounts, but the slides were all .484. I used a Callet Varicup-Bukur 15S with that monster, and I got band burying volume out of it. It was great for when the prima dona singer would stand in front of me . . .
_________________
Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)

[Andy Cooper]

Tony,
Assuming that you are not just yanking our waterkeys on this - the most successful model for your trumpet should be the Conn 80A Vic "cornet". No need for a large diameter bell but the bell on the Con Vic seems be be larger in internal diameter up to the end part of the flare. The leadpipe is an extremely fast taper - going from a cornet mpc to .485 or so very quickly. Control the resistance in the front end of the leadpipe rather than choking the bell. Make it a tunable bell - the Conn Vic's Opera glass tuning slide was really a tunable bell. Use a bass trumpet valve casing that has an actual .485 internal valve not just slide diameter - however I have one that I think has a .468 valve cluster with .485 slides that works well too. If you like larger bore horns of this design, there is no need for a super shallow or tight mouthpiece. just a backbore that matches the cup depth. It might be easier, however to make it a long model "cornet" like the Mendez or the Conn 28A - a trumpet with a cornet mouthpiece. This would give you more control over the leadpipe taper. You might actually be able to sell a few of these.

Of players I know who like open horns - most of us started on the largebore Olds or Conn cornets of the 50's. Our downfall was being talked into our first Bach trumpet.

[MarioChanelio]

The .484 sounds huge. I had trouble playing a .470 because of the air it took. I guess it would be the right horn for the right player. Good luck with the project.

[dershem]

I tried out the Martin Magna Mic Gillette model with the .484 bore (and 6" bell), but it was too much for me. Stuck with the .470 for 25 years, and wish I could still make that one scream, but I can't any more. But you might want to look at one for research purposes. They play very well, and project like a beast (and in all directions), but require some serious power.
_________________
BKA! Mic Gillette was my mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Mic G. trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc. (Among others)
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marc. mouthpieces.

[mcahynuacrkd]

[mcahynuacrkd]

[mcahynuacrkd]

[quote="mcahynuacrkd"]

[mcahynuacrkd]

[dershem]

[MarioChanelio]

Just curious about the concept behind making a horn with such a large bore. I know that usually they are much harder to play for long periods of time and require much more air. Maybe this horn would be good for building up air and endurance. Sort of like the breather tool they give patients to build up their lung capacity. I know it would be an instrument on a professional level as well but maybe it would become a great practice tool. Sort of like lifting weights to build up strength. Just a thought.

[connloyalist]

Just to be accurate:

[GordonH]

Bore size is a red herring.
Its the overall resistance of the instrument combined with the compression of the mouthpiece that needs to be balanced to make a workable trumpet. If the blow feels too resistive you will tire easily and the same if its too open.

For example, most rotary trumpets are around 0.435" bore but the bells are larger which compensates. My Monette trumpet is a medium bore but with a bell flare and mouthpiece backbore and throat which balances this out.

My cornet is .484 but this simply overcomes the resistance introduced by all the extra bends in the short cornet design and makes it more playable for longer periods as the resistance feel is more like a trumpet.

If I put my lips over the mouthpiece and exhale into it I want to feel an initial small resistance with this reducing once the air is flowing. If I have a set up which is too open or too closed it restricts my range, dynamic range and ability to articulate.

I think this is why I have such a strange mismatched set of instruments. They have been selected to have similar blowing characteristics.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[hansonsf]

[plp]