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Large bore trumpets


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Tony Scodwell
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Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1954

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:13 pm    Post subject: Large bore trumpets Reply with quote

I am having second thoughts about this proposed .484 bore Bb that I have considered making after a lot of good input from all the TH posters. It seems to be that too big is out of wack with what most players are wanting these days and those of you that mentioned trying to keep up with really big horns was counter productive to what we actually need in the real world of making a living with these things. It was a bit of a lark on my part to stretch the parameters somewhat, but who knows what will lead to the next great playing trumpet? I do appreciate all your comments and constructive input.
Tony Scodwell
Scodwell USA Trumpets and Flugelhorns
"Live In The Studio" by the Tony Scodwell Big Band now at CD Baby
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Mikeytrpt
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Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 5028
Location: Richfield, Minnesota

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony,

I'm perfectly happy with the .460 bore horn you made for me.....It has jsut the right amount of openess, combined with just the right amount of resistance.

I know....Seven of Nine says, "Resistance is Futile."

Seven of Nine must not have been a trumpet player..........

Too bad, as it would be fun to play duets with her.......
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qcm
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Joined: 08 Apr 2007
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Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony,

Just my opinion, but I would not build it - and I base this on several things.

First off, how much of a market is there for such a large bore horn? Yes, I'm sure there will be some who legitimately want and can handle a horn like this. But I believe that probably for most players, even a .470 is too big, unless they're obviously using it for lead work with a shallow mouthpiece. I wonder if there's any market research as to how many players use a horn with a .460 bore vs. a .470 bore. I would guess, and I could be COMPLETELY wrong here, but I would guess that at least 80% to 85% of all pro horns in the U.S. are .460 bore horns - and maybe more than that.

Second, are costs. Can you make such a horn at about the same cost as your other horns, or will those costs be substantially higher? And what would you have to charge in order to make a profit for yourself? Also, how many horns would you have to sell each year in order to break even?

Third, and this is a big one right now, is the economy. People are REALLY hurting financially. The economy has been in a nose-dive and it does not seem like it's going to get better anytime soon. Folks have cut back dramatically on their spending. So is this really the time to try and launch a new product that's dramatically different when a lot of people are worried about their jobs and struggling to pay the bills they already have?

Please understand, I am not try to be Mr. Doom and Gloom here, I'm only trying to sincerely share a few thoughts about this.

While I have not personally had the opportunity to play a Scodwell trumpet, I have heard and read many wonderful things about them. And I hope to play one at some point in the future.

I believe in innovation, in technology, trying new things and pushing boundaries. But again, the financial climate is just terrible right now, which is why I would suggest that you not build it at this present time.

Wishing you continued success and warmest wishes,

-Dave
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
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Location: Terre Haute, IN USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The real question is not whether a .485 bore horn is more open blowing than a .460 horn. I have played .460 bore trumpets that had such an open leadpipe as to make them unplayable (at least by me). I have also played a .464/468 bore trumpet with so much gap that it felt like a standard .459 Bach Strad. The question is more along these lines:
Take a .485 bore (valve cluster and slides) trumpet - set the leadpipe, main tuning slide and bell tail so that the horn plays about like a Claude Gordon or MF trumpet. Take a .460 bore (valve cluster and slides) trumpet - set the leadpipe, main tuning slide and bell tail so that the horn plays about like a CG or MF. Is one setup more desireable than the other from the stand point of high register, endurance, articulation, and intonation? Most players I know seem to need more resistant horns (Standard 37/25 Bach Stad) I simply have no endurance on a horn like that but I have very good endurance and high register on horns such as the Conn 80A, MF, CG, Benge 3X+, and the old King dual bore Symphony. Don't think you could make any money making a .485 bore horn but a prototype might give you some useful insight into large bore trumpets.
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chuck in ny
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Joined: 23 Sep 2006
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Location: New York

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as per dave edwards' remarks, this would be a hard sell in good times let alone the happyville we are sliding into.
i believe it is only necessary to reshuffle the mental deck and see if there is a core idea or bunch of concepts that are trying to emerge. as an instrument buyer, something like a 5.5" bell on a large bore trumpet would get my immediate attention.
the prospect of playing an 8" bell would remind me too much of the ritual humiliations we sometimes have to endure. i warmly recall the rectal thermometer from childhood as one of the early initiations. it's a bit of a stretch to expect people to shell over large for such experiences..chuck
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect this would not be a practical consideration, but what about possibly building some prototypes in that size so some people might get a feel for them? Too much time and expense involved?
I'm guessing if this was practical, you would be doing it though. Personally, I'd likely think I could not handle a horn of those dimensions, but who knows? I understand that many factors affect how a horn plays besides bore size.
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cb3
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Joined: 03 Oct 2006
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Location: LA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:24 pm    Post subject: ok Reply with quote

Wouldn't it solve the problem by putting the word out, deciding how many horns you would need to make for it to be a good business decision, then if you get that amount of committed buyers(with non-refundable deposits), make the horns? Once those have sold and people spread the word even further, do the same thing on each subsequent batch of horns. Seems to me you can't lose like that. Maybe I'm wrong lol.
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Scodwell:

I'm sure you know who Dennis Wedgwood is. Will you implement his valve port concept? Somebody nees to.
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spitvalve
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Joined: 11 Mar 2002
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Location: Little Elm, TX

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aww, heck, Tony--go ahead and make it, if just to see what it sounds like. You can always auction off the prototype as a collector's item if it doesn't work out.

Do you know anything about the Holton Banana horn? It was a .484 bore. I get the feeling maybe they had a bunch of leftover Firebird bells and Superbone valves and wanted to see what would happen if they stuck them together. I don't know anyone who's ever played one, but it sure looked like something you could make a lot of noise with. I think their market focus for that horn was marching bands. Was Maynard involved at all with the design/production of this horn? It was on the same catalog page as all of the MF horns.
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mcahynuacrkd
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Joined: 11 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony:
Again I think you would sell more .484 bore horns if you go with a smaller bell, like a 5 " bell, and build a trumpet similar to the popular sought after Conn 28 B Concert Grand. I think that this horn might sell, but even still the market for a trumpet like this is very small.

Why not create a trumpet similar to the Holton Firebird (but make it like Maynard's personal horn with seven slide positions) since Holton no longer has the tooling and or desire/market to build the MF Firebird?
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