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lburrows Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1096 Location: England
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: Kanstul backbores |
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Hi
As a bit of background, I played lead for six years with a big band that played mainly for dancing. We therefore played more old time dancing stuff, as well as as bit of latin, and the Glenn Miller numbers. Having the top D at the end of In the Mood as the high point of the programme, I always used a Bach 3C.
For the last few years, I have been playing fourth trumpet with a big band, that plays more typical big band repetoire. Personally, I like fourth, but I have been asked recently to do a bit of depping on lead.
Not having played a typical lead mouthpiece, and not wanting to initially stray too far away from my usual set-up, I had Kanstul put my Bach 3C rim on their B3D (copy of a Bach 3D) cup, to make me a custom top.
I started with a Kansul B10 (copy of a Bach 10) backbore, as this is what I have on my Bach 3C.
I am now considering a slightly tighter backbore from the Kanstul modular mouthpiece system, to give me a little more upper register support and endurance, and would like something on the same lines as the B10, only a little tighter.
The R2 (copy of a Reeves 2) sounds a possibility. I have previously tried the B76 (copy of a Bach 76 backbore) on a standard Kanstul 3C top and I didn't like it. I also do not like it on the Bach 3D, which comes with the 76 backbore as standard.
What are your views on the R2 backbore, and do you have any other suggestions? Thank you.
I am also considering having a top made, which is a copy of the cup end of my Bach 3C.
I could then use this with the B10 backbore, as a spare 3C for my other trumpet.
What would be the effect of combining a 3C top with a tighter backbore, or do tighter backbores generally better compliment shallower tops?
Although playing fourth for most of the practise, I have started playing lead on the odd number, to get me used to leading again. I therefore like the idea of keeping to the same cup which I have been playing for the rest of the practise, and just switching to a more efficient backbore.
Would this work?
Thanks
Lou _________________ I am now Lou Finch
I am a Principal Cornet and Big Band Trumpeter.
Bach 180ML 37/25 Trumpet - Bach 3C
Bach 184ML Cornet - Kanstul custom Bach 3C
Besson 927 Sovereign Cornet - Bach 5A
B&H Imperial Cornet - Bach 5A
Bach 183 Flugel - Bach 3CFL |
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DCB1 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 1944 Location: Jacksonville, Florida
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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I can't help you on the backbore you asked about but you may want to look at some of the Warburton backbores... you can find them used for a decent price.
Peace _________________ DCB <><
John 14:6
Member since 2001
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Selmer Radial
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Conn |
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jblo Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2004 Posts: 408 Location: Central PA
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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I've not tried either the 76 or R2, but when I was looking for more of a lead setup, I was torn between the Bach 41 and the Reeves 692 backbores. Chose the 41 because it gave me a little more flexibility to color the tone. I've used it in other settings too with success, so I don't think it's too focused.
FWIW.
Jason Blome |
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lburrows Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1096 Location: England
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:36 am Post subject: |
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DCB1 wrote: | I can't help you on the backbore you asked about but you may want to look at some of the Warburton backbores... you can find them used for a decent price.
Peace |
Hi DCB1
Thanks for this. I am pretty sure that the Warburton tops do have the same threads as my Kanstul top.
Thanks
Lou _________________ I am now Lou Finch
I am a Principal Cornet and Big Band Trumpeter.
Bach 180ML 37/25 Trumpet - Bach 3C
Bach 184ML Cornet - Kanstul custom Bach 3C
Besson 927 Sovereign Cornet - Bach 5A
B&H Imperial Cornet - Bach 5A
Bach 183 Flugel - Bach 3CFL |
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lburrows Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1096 Location: England
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:49 am Post subject: |
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jblo wrote: | I've not tried either the 76 or R2, but when I was looking for more of a lead setup, I was torn between the Bach 41 and the Reeves 692 backbores. Chose the 41 because it gave me a little more flexibility to color the tone. I've used it in other settings too with success, so I don't think it's too focused.
FWIW.
Jason Blome |
Hi Jason
Thanks very much for this. I've previously considered the 41 backbore, and have sort of discounted it lately, because I didn't like the 76. I'll definitely look into it again, as it sounds like another promising option.
As a matter of interest, what top are you using it with, and when you say that it is not too focussed and works well in other settings (which is what I am looking for to be quite honest. Initially, I would rather not go too focussed), are you still using it with the same top?
Thanks
Lou _________________ I am now Lou Finch
I am a Principal Cornet and Big Band Trumpeter.
Bach 180ML 37/25 Trumpet - Bach 3C
Bach 184ML Cornet - Kanstul custom Bach 3C
Besson 927 Sovereign Cornet - Bach 5A
B&H Imperial Cornet - Bach 5A
Bach 183 Flugel - Bach 3CFL |
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lburrows Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1096 Location: England
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: |
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jblo wrote: | I've not tried either the 76 or R2, but when I was looking for more of a lead setup, I was torn between the Bach 41 and the Reeves 692 backbores. Chose the 41 because it gave me a little more flexibility to color the tone. I've used it in other settings too with success, so I don't think it's too focused.
FWIW.
Jason Blome |
Hi Jason
Thanks very much for this. I'll look into the 41 backbore in more detail.
Thanks again
Lou _________________ I am now Lou Finch
I am a Principal Cornet and Big Band Trumpeter.
Bach 180ML 37/25 Trumpet - Bach 3C
Bach 184ML Cornet - Kanstul custom Bach 3C
Besson 927 Sovereign Cornet - Bach 5A
B&H Imperial Cornet - Bach 5A
Bach 183 Flugel - Bach 3CFL |
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lburrows Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1096 Location: England
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: |
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I've just realised that I have looked into this a little already. I've had the idea in my mind for a while, but I didn't realise that I had already done some research. My, I really do go round in circles
I have noted that the Reeves website says the following:
Backbore: 2
Our standard backbore. More centered than a Bach #10 with excellent tone color and intonation. This backbore works well on all of our cups. It was the 2nd backbore Bob ever made.
Presumably, therefore the R2 would work ok with a Bach 3C top.
I'll have to think some more.
All the best
Lou _________________ I am now Lou Finch
I am a Principal Cornet and Big Band Trumpeter.
Bach 180ML 37/25 Trumpet - Bach 3C
Bach 184ML Cornet - Kanstul custom Bach 3C
Besson 927 Sovereign Cornet - Bach 5A
B&H Imperial Cornet - Bach 5A
Bach 183 Flugel - Bach 3CFL |
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Mikeytrpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2004 Posts: 5028 Location: Richfield, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Lou, that Reeves #2 backbore with a 3C top is an excellent combination. |
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lburrows Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1096 Location: England
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Hi Mike
Thanks for this.
Lou _________________ I am now Lou Finch
I am a Principal Cornet and Big Band Trumpeter.
Bach 180ML 37/25 Trumpet - Bach 3C
Bach 184ML Cornet - Kanstul custom Bach 3C
Besson 927 Sovereign Cornet - Bach 5A
B&H Imperial Cornet - Bach 5A
Bach 183 Flugel - Bach 3CFL |
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crzytptman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 10124 Location: Escondido California
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: |
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I agree. I used the R2 when I first got my BMV1-1/2C and it worked great for everything with a Bach 72*. Excellent tone color. On the Flip Oakes horn, I use a B7 for everything. For some reason, the R2 doesn't ring the horn like the B7. It's all about balance. _________________ Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld) |
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lburrows Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1096 Location: England
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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crzytptman wrote: | I agree. I used the R2 when I first got my BMV1-1/2C and it worked great for everything with a Bach 72*. Excellent tone color. On the Flip Oakes horn, I use a B7 for everything. For some reason, the R2 doesn't ring the horn like the B7. It's all about balance. |
Hi Nate
Thanks for this.
What are the playing characteristics of the R2?
Today, I did a bit of experimentation. My previous experience of the B76 backbore was on my old Yamaha YTR-6335HGII trumpet. I today compared my custom Kanstul top with the B10 backbore to a standard Bach 3D, and actually preferred the Bach 3D for playability and tone. As you say, it is all about balance, and the balance seems wrong with my custom 3D top/B10 backbore. Maybe, I should be trying something tighter with it, such as the B76 or B41 backbore, or is the R2 also fairly tight?
Thanks
Lou _________________ I am now Lou Finch
I am a Principal Cornet and Big Band Trumpeter.
Bach 180ML 37/25 Trumpet - Bach 3C
Bach 184ML Cornet - Kanstul custom Bach 3C
Besson 927 Sovereign Cornet - Bach 5A
B&H Imperial Cornet - Bach 5A
Bach 183 Flugel - Bach 3CFL |
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Sarcastic Musician Regular Member
Joined: 10 Sep 2008 Posts: 77
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Does anybody know where (and how much) I can buy the Kanstul backbores? I can get them from a local dealer, but I'm hoping to find them for less than $60 each. Worst case scenario, I could send an old 7c or 10 1/2c to get cut for threads. I'm pretty much just looking for a #10 at this point, but it may expand from there (of course). |
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michael manthey Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 1116
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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I'll just cut to the chase here ... I have a Kanstul R2 and an R69 for sale. Keep in mind they are Kanstul's versions of the Reeves bb's, but they are very good. $40 for either.
Send me a PM if interested. _________________ Michael Manthey
Scodwell USA Trumpets
Stomvi USA FLEX Mpc
Bob Reeves Mpc's
Kanstul Mpc's
'The Brass Spa' Practice Mute
www.ultrapureoils.com
Maynard Ferguson BBN Band |
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lburrows Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1096 Location: England
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Hi Michael
Thanks very much for this.
I'll give this some thought.
Thanks again
Lou _________________ I am now Lou Finch
I am a Principal Cornet and Big Band Trumpeter.
Bach 180ML 37/25 Trumpet - Bach 3C
Bach 184ML Cornet - Kanstul custom Bach 3C
Besson 927 Sovereign Cornet - Bach 5A
B&H Imperial Cornet - Bach 5A
Bach 183 Flugel - Bach 3CFL |
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lburrows Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1096 Location: England
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Mikeytrpt wrote: | Lou, that Reeves #2 backbore with a 3C top is an excellent combination. |
Hi Mike
How does the 3C top/Reeves 2 backbore combination differ sound and playability wise from a 3C top/Bach 10 backbore?
Thanks
Lou _________________ I am now Lou Finch
I am a Principal Cornet and Big Band Trumpeter.
Bach 180ML 37/25 Trumpet - Bach 3C
Bach 184ML Cornet - Kanstul custom Bach 3C
Besson 927 Sovereign Cornet - Bach 5A
B&H Imperial Cornet - Bach 5A
Bach 183 Flugel - Bach 3CFL |
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Mikeytrpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2004 Posts: 5028 Location: Richfield, Minnesota
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Lou, they are really close. For me, the Reeves #2 has a bit more "commercial" type sound...maybe a bit more zing and focus. But either one would work. I have played that Reeves #2 backbroe that Michael Manthey is selling. it's a graet backbore.Do you have a top to put it on? |
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lburrows Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1096 Location: England
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Mikeytrpt wrote: | Lou, they are really close. For me, the Reeves #2 has a bit more "commercial" type sound...maybe a bit more zing and focus. But either one would work.
Hi Mike
Thanks very much for this.
I have played that Reeves #2 backbroe that Michael Manthey is selling. it's a graet backbore.Do you have a top to put it on?
I have a custom Kanstul top, which is my Bach 3C rim on their B3D backbore, but I was thinking about having Kanstul make me a top of the cup end of my Bach 3C mouthpiece.
Thanks again.
Lou
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_________________ I am now Lou Finch
I am a Principal Cornet and Big Band Trumpeter.
Bach 180ML 37/25 Trumpet - Bach 3C
Bach 184ML Cornet - Kanstul custom Bach 3C
Besson 927 Sovereign Cornet - Bach 5A
B&H Imperial Cornet - Bach 5A
Bach 183 Flugel - Bach 3CFL |
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gchun Guest
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Mikeytrpt wrote: | Lou, they are really close. For me, the Reeves #2 has a bit more "commercial" type sound...maybe a bit more zing and focus. But either one would work. ? |
Lou and Mikey-
This is a perfect example of how different equipment works differently for different people. Personally, I find the Reeves 69bb to be edgier, brighter and have more projection than the Reeves 2bb. I like the 69bb for big band lead and musicals. For me, It's almost TOO present for softer situations.
Different strokes for different folks.
Garry |
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lburrows Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1096 Location: England
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Garry
Thanks very much for this.
I have a feeling however, that you may have misunderstood, as Mikeytrpt was talking about the Reeves 2 backbore in comparsion with the Bach 10 backbore, rather than in comparison with a Reeves 69 backbore, but then again maybe I have misunderstood your post.
Nevermind anyway, as I have found your experiences with the Reeves 69 backbore in comparison with the Reeves 2, very helpful.
Take Care
Lou _________________ I am now Lou Finch
I am a Principal Cornet and Big Band Trumpeter.
Bach 180ML 37/25 Trumpet - Bach 3C
Bach 184ML Cornet - Kanstul custom Bach 3C
Besson 927 Sovereign Cornet - Bach 5A
B&H Imperial Cornet - Bach 5A
Bach 183 Flugel - Bach 3CFL |
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gchun Guest
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Lou-
My error. Thanks for the clarification. Good luck on your search.
Garry |
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