Help with my Stradivarius

[musickaye]

Hello All,

I am brand new to this group and I wanted to say hello. Also, I am in great need of some opinions. Can someone help me out here?

I have a Bach Stradivarius trumpet that I purchased on 48th Street in Manhattan while I was attending the High School of Performing Arts. The trumpet has been living in my basement for about 20 years now. I finally have come to my senses and decided I want to play it again, a lot. It is in relatively decent shape. It needs an overhaul (corks replaced, springs replaced, pads replaced, etc.) I think the values are in good shape. There are only 2 tiny dings in the whole horn. However, I believe it needs to be power cleaned and re-lacquered. The whole horn is very musty smelling and dirty. The original lacquer is very tarnished.

The horn is old. The serial number is 2825. I am the original owner.

Here are my questions:
1.Do I restore this horn?
2.Does restoration lessen the value if I ever want to sell it?
3.Should I just sell it as is and buy a new trumpet? (Can I even sell it?)
4.Is this horn even worth restoring?
Any information you can supply me with will be very much appreciated. I look forward in chatting with you all in the future.

Thanks so much for you help and opinions,

Kaye

[jhatpro]

Welcome to TH, Kaye. Wow! That serial number makes your horn a very early Bach. Is it worth restoring? I'd say absolutely, adding that it may not even need much work. If it were mine I'd take it or send it to a restoration pro like Rich Ita in Georgia, Charlie Melk in Wisconsin, or Steve Wynans in Illinois. There may be someone in their league in your area. In any event, I'd recommend getting a recommendation from somone who really knows how to evaluate and, if necessary, restore quality vintage horns.

As for selling it - that depends on whether you're a player or have somone in the family who is. A vintage Bach is definitely worth having. On the other hand, it would also fetch a nice price although not as much, perhaps, as you might think. Trumpets, even very fine ones like yours, are among the least expensive of all musical instruments. I'd guess that your horn might bring several thousand dollars in top condition. If you do choose to have it restore (and one of the people I mentioned would guide you) be sure you don't change anything and be careful about how you refinish it. Heavy buffing and a non-original type of finish will make it less desirable to player/collectors.

Good luck, and keep us posted!
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[HERMOKIWI]

A Bach Stradivarius with the serial number 2825 would have been manufactured in the mid 1930's. I agree with jhatpro. The horn is a collector's item and you should be careful about whether you restore it and, if so, who does the work. Rich Ita, Charlie Melk and Steve Wynans are all good sources of advice. If I were you I wouldn't alter/restore the horn in any way without first speaking with an expert such as those listed above.

[joefab]

I second Jims' opinion completly!

That's is a great horn you have....both from the playing and collecting point of view.

Restore it, then keep it!

[Scorpion]

If it plays well you have a very nice horn indeed. More than worth the restoration costs. Although I would advise against relacquering. If (for whatever reason) you want to sell it in the future it will be worth more with the original lacquer. There are a few ways to get rid of the musty smell. Chances are its more the case than the horn. Keep the case (adds to the value,) but invest in an extra one to keep the horn in.
_________________
-GET OVER HERE!
-1964 Olds Super Balanced Depleted Uranium single flue Harpoon (w/custom coprion hand guard i got from a 1925 Conn Erradicator.) Akright converted handle w/calfskin grip (143xx)

[supportlivejazz]

If it were mine I'd send it to one of the techs mentioned above. I use Charlie Melk. I'd ask him to clean it, replace all the felts and corks, adjust the slides, remove the dings and polish the existing lacquer. I had him clean and polish my 1940s Blessing and the lacquer looks great now. I would then take it and play it for a good period of time. If it turned out it was a great trumpet for me, then I'd consider a restoration. If not I'd sell it as a barn fresh, all original early Bach. I am not a big fan of the restoration. I like all original in great untouched condition. But, that's just me.

I have stated here before that it is my belief that a good condition all original horn is better seller than a restored horn. At least that's the way I like to buy them (and sell them). Get it into great playing condition and use it. Then make your move.
_________________
Conn 6B
1940s Blessing Artist
Olds LA Special Model Cornet






"I'm not apologizing, I am what I am. There'll be no compromising, I don't give a damn."

[dr_trumpet]

[HERMOKIWI]

I was wondering about that, too. If you bought the horn new when you were in high school, and the horn was new in 1935, then you were born in maybe 1919, making you 90 years old. To be a comeback player at the age of 90 might be some sort of world record.

[dmf]

Hi Kaye

Just my 2 cents - I'm going to assume, as with the last 2 posters, that there is some kind of misunderstanding with the serial number. If it really is a 1930's model then you might want to disregard what I'm about to write.

I have a Strad that was bought for me new when I was in high school during the 1970's. After getting married I didn't play for around 15 years before coming back about 9 years ago.

During my first playing stint I'd managed to dent the bell twice at various gigs and the straightening process had left the bell lacquer somewhat the worse for wear ,not to mention the various handling wear marks etc.

Over the past couple of years I'd been noticing more and more raw brass instruments around and as I'm forbidden (wife/financial controller !) from purchasing any new toys decided I'd strip my Strad and go raw. This is probably the best decision I've ever made in terms of the performance of the instrument and the look. The horn is noticeably mellower than before and now looks like a 'one-off' custom instrument. It never fails to generate a comment when someone who hasn't seen this done before takes a look for the first time.

There are plenty of threads on TH to guide you in stripping a horn of it's lacquer (I used oven cleaner with absolutely no ill effects on slides/valves etc) and if you do decide to go ahead and try and don't like the result, you can always have it re-lacquered again.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

David

[swingintrpt]

At one point, Bach was issuing instruments commemorating an anniversary of some sort. There was a medallion on the bell of the horn, and the first two digits were dropped off of the serial number. I want to say that this was in the late seventies or early eighties, but I can't recall off the top of my head. There have been at least 2 threads that addressed these horns, but they are both over 2 years old by now.

Having said that, Bachs are ALWAYS worth getting into playing condition, but I would NEVER suggest anyone re-plate or re-laquer one. The sound and playing characteristics WILL change, and probably not for the better.
_________________
RJM
Examining the difference between
music and Music.

[plunkett]

Guys/Ladies:

Kaye never said she(he?) bought in NEW - just that he/she bought it at a music store. They DO sell used horns...

Pat
_________________
Pat Plunkett

[Trptbenge]

But she did say she was the original owner.

Irregardless, if the valves are good and there is not other major damage to the horn then you should get it cleaned or clean it yourself and have all the pads and the springs, where necessary, replaced. Other then that I would not do a lot to it. You can probably get the couple of small dings taken out. Kaye hasn't followed up on her first post. I am curious to learn more about the horn. Maybe she can upload a picture.

Mike
_________________
It's the sound that makes the difference!

[poochie]

Get on the Parkway North and drive fo 40 min. to Dillon Music in Woodbridge, NJ. They will help anyway they can.

[Leon]

The 4 digit serial numbered instruments that you are refering to, are the models, 194, and 195. This was to commemorate the 25 th anniversary of The Selmer Company's acquisition of the Vincent Bach Division. They had the medallion on the bell, with special engraving, silver plated, with Gold plating inside the bell. This was the first use of the then new 25 LR leadpipe, and was a light weight body with a regular weight bell.
This may be what she has.
Leon

[musickaye]

Hi All again,

Thanks so much for all the information. Thanks Poochie for the Woodbridge place. I am going to check that out ASAP.

Okay, you are all right. There is more to my story but frankly it is quite bizarre and I’m not sure how much of it I really believe.

During the years I attended Performing Arts High School, (1962 thru 1965, see I’m not 90 years old) my family was dirt poor. My favorite pastime was to go to 48th Street in Manhattan (2 blocks from my school) and play all the fabulous expensive trumpets the store owners would allow me to touch.( I was playing a Holton trumpet at the time and it was a terrible horn.) One day I went into Ponte’s and he told me that several brand new Bach Stradivarius horn just came in and they were priced a bunch less then the others he had in stock. I think he had 4 horns in all. He allowed me to try each one, and I thought they all played really nicely. When I asked him about the difference in price he told me that the Bach workers told him that they had not gotten paid for sometime so they stole the parts and made 12 trumpets that were now for sale up and down 48th street. He said he would save one for me if I wanted it. That was after school on a Friday. It took me all weekend to beg my parents for the money, but they finally came through for me. On Monday I went and bought my first brand new trumpet. (It was the only left on all of 48th street.) It was indeed sold to me as a brand new trumpet. It did take some time to break it in to my liking so I’m thinking it really was brand new.

Several years ago I thought I was going to sell my horn. By some stroke of good luck I was put in touch with a guy who worked for Bach for years. His name is Tedd Waggoner. He was able to tell me that the serial number (2825) on my trumpet was listed in his files as belonging to a cornet that was sold in Germany in 1935. He also said that Vincent Bach was always very good to his workers and had a hard time believing that he didn’t pay them.

Well, that’s the whole story. Pretty nuts, don’t you think? You can check out some pictures of the trumpet at: www.creativerecords.com/trumpet.html

Anyway, I think I will take your advice. Most everyone suggests that I fix it up and keep it so I can start playing again. I guess I will just have the original finish chemically cleaned and polished.

Is it worth getting the mouthpieces overhauled or just buy new ones.

Boy what a fountain of knowledge you all have about trumpets. Thanks so much everyone for taking the time to help me out.

Warmest regards,

Kaye

[dr_trumpet]

Kaye,

WOW! What an incredible story....I kept looking at it thinking, 'this can't be true'....but who could make up such a story. Incredible, and thanks for trusting us enough to share it with us.

I light of your story, can you do one thing? Contact a fellow by the name of Roy Hempley, who helps run the Bachology section of the Bach Brass web site (http://www.bachbrass.com). Tell your story to Roy. He might ask to borrow your horn and do some cool story on it.....it certainly sounds up the right road at least.

Incredible. Really!!! Thanks for sharing!

Al Lilly
_________________
Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music

[musickaye]

Hi all,

Sorry about that. I misnamed the file on the server. it's now there.

http://www.creativerecords.com/trumpet.html

Kaye

[veery715]

That's a C trumpet, or is it?! Is that the only photo on the page of your horn? The bell to the right is a 239, but the tuning slide looks a bit longish for a C. Did they assemble a Bb horn with C bell? Maybe the serial # sequence is different. I think we were all assuming is was a Bb horn, since HS players usually didn't have anyting else in those days. I am confused. (What's new?)
_________________
veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.

[Jeff Mullis]

Looks like a B flat to me. But the ferrules look different to me.

[musickaye]