Double Tounging and The Growl

weezintrumpeteer · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2002 3:57 pm Post subject:

Two questions:
What is the best way to learn how to double/triple tounge? Right now, I can double toung a little, but only fast.
Also, do you know how to do that "Growl" that people like Wynton Marsalis, and Nicholas Payton do? I would relly like to learn how to do this because I think that it would be cool to do in jazz band.
Any help is appreciated

Patrick

mafields627 · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2002 4:21 pm Post subject:

I won't give you any advice on the tonguing issue since there are those who can do it and teach you better than I can but, I was a masterclass by Wynton once where someone asked him how he made all those noises and his response was something to the extent that he "just does them." ot of help, huh? Just play around until you come up with something that sounds decent and works.
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vivace · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2002 5:30 pm Post subject:

I saw a master class with Wynton, and he said that to growl, he hums while he plays. Sounds really cool through a plunger.
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OCTA-C · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2002 8:58 pm Post subject:

Hi Patrick:
The "growl" you are talking about is actually quite easy to do once you get the hang of it. As well as by Jazz trumpeters, it's used by many Polka trumpet players to lead into the drive part of a song or to highlight a certain area of the music. It's really just a flutter-tongue technique. Imagine your tongue doing sort of drum roll. Arch your tongue high against the roof of your mouth and blow. Try to feel and control the speed that your tongue moves back and forth. For a harder edge "growl" just hum behind the fluttering. You don"t need to use a mouthpiece for this at first. It sounds great at different intervals for Jazz solos and Dixieland type music.
As far as double-triple tonguing goes there are a few books out on this; also there were many great posts on this topic in the "OLD FORUM". Maybe someone has them printed out and could get a copy to you. It doesn't come easy and, like everything else, takes practice and concentration at first. A friend of mine has his triple-tongue down to a science. He can use it through entire songs so well that we make the joke that he sounds like he is actually playing underwater! Hope this info helps some.
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Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

Ive found that lots of the Tpt. tricks are harder for people to control with a 'big' lip aperture

...sorry to bring it back to the boring stuff....

yes the growl I manage to achieve (whether this is the most recognised method) is humming while playing....the thing to bear in mind is that it won't sound to you in your head how it's gonna sound to the audience at the end of the hall.

It sounds like your being attacked by a herd of wild grizzlies ---and sometimes if you drink enough before hand you see em too

Rgds. Roddy o-iii<O
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trickg · Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 6:00 am Post subject:

I've found that I can growl both with my throat and by fluttering your tongue, the one is like doing a dog growl, the other is like rolling your Rs speaking Spanish.

I like to use the growl when the band is playing "Brick House" by the Commedors right before going into the main lick in the song. I think that it gives the next lick a little more punch.
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David Oulton · Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:00 am Post subject:

I never could roll my R's. I've always had to growl (gargle) using my throat but this is a very coarse sound.

David

rch-tech · Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:32 am Post subject:

I just want to be clear. Flutter Tonguing and growling in my opinion are two different things.
The growl thing is called "multi phonics". On a trombone is sounds nearly, if done right, two instruments at once.
Its hard to do on the trumpet unless you have a more powerful singing voice to match the tone of the trumpet.
Flutter tonguing is simpler and that you just roll the tongue...like speaking spanish and using the double "rr". (Like a human impression of a drum roll).
I have a real audio file of a bone player doing the multiphonics...it is incredible!

trickg · Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:44 am Post subject:

Color me clueless, but I always thought that the growl was produced by the tongue. It isn't the method, it's the end result and that sound coming from the bell. I've seen some people mess around with humming while playing and I've even fiddled with it a bit myself in an attempt to play simple duets with myself, but I've never heard that referred to as a growl, only the fluttered tongue or the throat for those who are unable to flutter the tongue.
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

....be assured flutter tongue (produced with a rrrrrolling motin of the tongue...and a growl...with a humming sound of the throat are two VERY different things.....you are right!!!

Roddy o-iii<O
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"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
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[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

rch-tech · Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:00 am Post subject:

I have seen music written as "growl" meaning flutter tongue before. I think the terms get used interchangeably.
I know in the saxophone world though, if you say growl they mean the humming into the horn.
To me flutter tonguing is fluttertonguing, but even I refer to is as a growl for understandability when talking to most players.
I say multiphonics when I mean the other but usually mention that that is a true growl.

[ This Message was edited by: rch-tech on 2002-01-22 12:01 ]

weezintrumpeteer · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:57 pm Post subject:

Hey,
Thanks for all of the advice guys. It really helps. I have tried all of your suggestions, and they all work a little bit (I need to practice them

). Thanks a bunch,
Patrick

funkymonkey · Regular Member Joined: 10 Dec 2001 Posts: 65

Hey... I'm not much of a tonguer... so I can't really give you advice on tonguing

Growling on the other hand, I can do a lot better. There are two types of growls you can do (excluding the flutter tongue). One way is to simply "growl" into the instrument as you buzz and you should feel something in your neck. This is a more harsher growl. The other way is to hum a pitch in falsetto and it seems to work for me.

On the topic of flutter tonguing vs. growling, they are two completely different things. Some people flutter tongue to imitate the sound of a growl but its actually a really cheesy way of doing it. Flutter "tonguing" is done with the tongue while growling involves making your airstream different.

walter · Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2002 3:13 am Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: walter on 2002-09-20 06:55 ]

jkramb19 · Veteran Member Joined: 16 Mar 2002 Posts: 365

To growl just hum while you play.
The best way to double tunge is to start playing clark studies 37 to 42 using all "ka"s until you can do both ta and ka slowly and no one can tell the difference.