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razeontherock
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10609
Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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 Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:44 am Post subject: |
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I think it's silly, the people saying the O/P, m4 or whoever couldn't be understood.
It's a lament. From a guy who lives in Paris. As an artist no less!
And it's a valid point. So who's going to step and "Father" the next genre?
Vis Eminem ...  |
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loweredsixth
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 1844
Location: Fresno, California, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Okay, I'm gonna put a different spin on this.
If today's music is not up to par, then I think it's the "older" players who are at fault. There are probably more young players eager to learn now than ever, but where are the "older" players helping them?
m4, instead of whining about how things where better "in the good ol' days", maybe you can hang out with the younger crowd and help them.
Maybe, in some way, that's what Wynton is talking about in his song, "Where Y'all At?"
P.S. m4, you sound really good on your MySpace pages...great jazz...not innovative, but great!
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The name I go by in the real world is Joe Lewis |
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junkyt
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 696
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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With all due respect to everyone who has posted so far, if you can't make a living playing music today you are not trying hard enough. There are 1000's more opportunities to make money through music today, and not $1 needs to go to anyone but you (and those you make music with). I find it almost laughable when I hear people lamenting about the "good old days". If you open your eyes to the possibilities that are afforded to you today (bars, restaurants, casuals, weddings, corporate events, licensing, internet, teaching etc) you will find that if you are willing to put in the work you can make a fine living from your music.
I'm not the best trumpet player in Seattle. I'm probably not even the 10th best trumpet player in Seattle. But I've been supporting myself quite well now for 8 years with no day job. How? By working harder and smarter than the other players in town, and being willing to accept the money gigs that the "artists" won't play. There's nothing wrong with being an artist, and I applaud you if that's what you want to do.
But if you want to make a living, learn some business skills, find out where the money gigs are in your town, and go get them!
Playing the money gigs allows me the freedom to play the lower paying gigs that satisfies my artistic wants and needs. And I pay my band well.
If I can do it you can do it.
_________________
Check out my new blog about the life of a working musician: OneWorkingMusician.com |
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Fleebat
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Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 2058
Location: Nashville, TN
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Tell it, Jason.
Rusty Russell |
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dqjazz
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 236
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| junkyt wrote: | With all due respect to everyone who has posted so far, if you can't make a living playing music today you are not trying hard enough. There are 1000's more opportunities to make money through music today, and not $1 needs to go to anyone but you (and those you make music with). I find it almost laughable when I hear people lamenting about the "good old days". If you open your eyes to the possibilities that are afforded to you today (bars, restaurants, casuals, weddings, corporate events, licensing, internet, teaching etc) you will find that if you are willing to put in the work you can make a fine living from your music.
I'm not the best trumpet player in Seattle. I'm probably not even the 10th best trumpet player in Seattle. But I've been supporting myself quite well now for 8 years with no day job. How? By working harder and smarter than the other players in town, and being willing to accept the money gigs that the "artists" won't play. There's nothing wrong with being an artist, and I applaud you if that's what you want to do.
But if you want to make a living, learn some business skills, find out where the money gigs are in your town, and go get them!
Playing the money gigs allows me the freedom to play the lower paying gigs that satisfies my artistic wants and needs. And I pay my band well.
If I can do it you can do it. |
With all due respect, I could make a living out of performing but I don't like doing most of the crappy pop gigs where I have to dance and play short stabs for 4 hours. I would rather teach so I can pick and choose the gigs that would be musically rewarding for me to play. Each to their own. |
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junkyt
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 696
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| dqjazz wrote: | | junkyt wrote: | With all due respect to everyone who has posted so far, if you can't make a living playing music today you are not trying hard enough. There are 1000's more opportunities to make money through music today, and not $1 needs to go to anyone but you (and those you make music with). I find it almost laughable when I hear people lamenting about the "good old days". If you open your eyes to the possibilities that are afforded to you today (bars, restaurants, casuals, weddings, corporate events, licensing, internet, teaching etc) you will find that if you are willing to put in the work you can make a fine living from your music.
I'm not the best trumpet player in Seattle. I'm probably not even the 10th best trumpet player in Seattle. But I've been supporting myself quite well now for 8 years with no day job. How? By working harder and smarter than the other players in town, and being willing to accept the money gigs that the "artists" won't play. There's nothing wrong with being an artist, and I applaud you if that's what you want to do.
But if you want to make a living, learn some business skills, find out where the money gigs are in your town, and go get them!
Playing the money gigs allows me the freedom to play the lower paying gigs that satisfies my artistic wants and needs. And I pay my band well.
If I can do it you can do it. |
With all due respect, I could make a living out of performing but I don't like doing most of the crappy pop gigs where I have to dance and play short stabs for 4 hours. I would rather teach so I can pick and choose the gigs that would be musically rewarding for me to play. Each to their own. |
Good for you, dq! I'm glad you've found a life that works for you.
But just for the record, I'd say 90% of the gigs I play are jazz gigs, and 100% of the gigs I play are musically rewarding. Whether it's a wedding, corporate party or club date, my band and I have a blast and I always learn something about music, myself and humanity.
Much like reading the postings here... 
_________________
Check out my new blog about the life of a working musician: OneWorkingMusician.com |
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A.N.A.Mendez
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 5227
Location: ca.
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:31 am Post subject: |
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I envy you. 
_________________
"There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860
☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚ |
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rockford
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 2477
Location: Northern VA
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| junkyt wrote: | With all due respect to everyone who has posted so far, if you can't make a living playing music today you are not trying hard enough. There are 1000's more opportunities to make money through music today, and not $1 needs to go to anyone but you (and those you make music with). I find it almost laughable when I hear people lamenting about the "good old days". If you open your eyes to the possibilities that are afforded to you today (bars, restaurants, casuals, weddings, corporate events, licensing, internet, teaching etc) you will find that if you are willing to put in the work you can make a fine living from your music.
I'm not the best trumpet player in Seattle. I'm probably not even the 10th best trumpet player in Seattle. But I've been supporting myself quite well now for 8 years with no day job. How? By working harder and smarter than the other players in town, and being willing to accept the money gigs that the "artists" won't play. There's nothing wrong with being an artist, and I applaud you if that's what you want to do.
But if you want to make a living, learn some business skills, find out where the money gigs are in your town, and go get them!
Playing the money gigs allows me the freedom to play the lower paying gigs that satisfies my artistic wants and needs. And I pay my band well.
If I can do it you can do it. |
This is a great posting and should be required reading for anyone sitting around waiting for the phone to ring. Some of these gigs Jason is talking about may not be in the limelight but they can always be done with quality and class. Parties, weddings, social gatherings, corporate events, teaching are all out there. Put your package together and sell it! Unless you live near me! 
_________________
Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190. |
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textr
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1678
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| rockford wrote: | | junkyt wrote: | With all due respect to everyone who has posted so far, if you can't make a living playing music today you are not trying hard enough. There are 1000's more opportunities to make money through music today, and not $1 needs to go to anyone but you (and those you make music with). I find it almost laughable when I hear people lamenting about the "good old days". If you open your eyes to the possibilities that are afforded to you today (bars, restaurants, casuals, weddings, corporate events, licensing, internet, teaching etc) you will find that if you are willing to put in the work you can make a fine living from your music.
I'm not the best trumpet player in Seattle. I'm probably not even the 10th best trumpet player in Seattle. But I've been supporting myself quite well now for 8 years with no day job. How? By working harder and smarter than the other players in town, and being willing to accept the money gigs that the "artists" won't play. There's nothing wrong with being an artist, and I applaud you if that's what you want to do.
But if you want to make a living, learn some business skills, find out where the money gigs are in your town, and go get them!
Playing the money gigs allows me the freedom to play the lower paying gigs that satisfies my artistic wants and needs. And I pay my band well.
If I can do it you can do it. |
This is a great posting and should be required reading for anyone sitting around waiting for the phone to ring. Some of these gigs Jason is talking about may not be in the limelight but they can always be done with quality and class. Parties, weddings, social gatherings, corporate events, teaching are all out there. Put your package together and sell it! Unless you live near me! |
Yes, it is a great post , but there are a couple of things I would like to point out.
Jason is certainly not the first trumpet player to support himself as a working musician. There are tons of guys that have done it all over the country. I also supported myself by working every kind of gig imaginable, latin bands, dixieland bands, german polka bands, rhythm and blues bands, Pops symphony concerts , wedding variety bands, brass quintets,
rodeo bands, circus bands, big bands,etc. etc. ...you get the idea. I did this all through my twenties and half of my thirties. In fact I never had a day job until I was 34 when my son was born and that is when I started teaching. So Jason has not really blazed any new trails there with his post.
When Jason says "make a fine living" is the point I wanted to discuss.
It is one thing for a young man to support his self as a working trumpet player ( not really that difficult at all)and quite another to support a family. Can you say :
mortage ?
utilities ?
car payments ?
car insurance ?
car repairs ?
health insurance ?
food ?
clothing?
diapers ?
school supplies?
hospital bills?
toys for your kids ?
gifts for your wife ?
vacations ?
... and the hits just keep on coming.
I am not trying to put Jason down at all , because I have done the same thing and certainly enjoyed it and was proud of it . But what I am saying is that very few players can raise a family on what they can make by simply playing gigs alone , in fact the percentage of heavy weight players in NY and LA that support themselves and their family by playing their horn is a very small percentage .
I guess what I am trying to get across is that it comes down to what you want out of life and sometimes as one gets older, life changes and you have to adapt to those changes ,but that certainly does not mean that you cannot be a dedicated and working musician your whole life. I still work every gig that I get called for , which by the way keeps me a lot busier than I want to be , but I would rather be too busy than not busy enough.
Edit: BTW, the OP is a arrogant, pretensious, over educated, snob who has an entirely over rated opinion of himself, he has posted his dribble here before under a couple of different log on names and it always the came old crap with him, this is how he gets his jollies. In fact I doubt that anyone outside of his little circle has ever heard of him. |
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textr
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1678
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| A.N.A.Mendez wrote: | I too was flummoxed.....
How's that prewar? |
A.N.A.
I too have been flummoxed before ...it is very painful.
LOL |
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textr
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1678
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| rockford wrote: | | All this whining coming from a Paris flat? What are we lamenting here anyway? The good old days where jazz musicians made a decent living? Give us all a break. Jazz clubs have not been commonplace, if they ever were, for close to 50 years. If you were black you couldn't even stay or eat in some of the hotels you played in. There are more jobs in jazz today than ever before but those jobs are in the schools and not living hand to mouth in some rag tag jazz club. Education is where the future is in instrumental music. |
Now, this is a great post, it hits the nail right on the head. |
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A.N.A.Mendez
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 5227
Location: ca.
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| textr wrote: | | rockford wrote: | | junkyt wrote: | With all due respect to everyone who has posted so far, if you can't make a living playing music today you are not trying hard enough. There are 1000's more opportunities to make money through music today, and not $1 needs to go to anyone but you (and those you make music with). I find it almost laughable when I hear people lamenting about the "good old days". If you open your eyes to the possibilities that are afforded to you today (bars, restaurants, casuals, weddings, corporate events, licensing, internet, teaching etc) you will find that if you are willing to put in the work you can make a fine living from your music.
I'm not the best trumpet player in Seattle. I'm probably not even the 10th best trumpet player in Seattle. But I've been supporting myself quite well now for 8 years with no day job. How? By working harder and smarter than the other players in town, and being willing to accept the money gigs that the "artists" won't play. There's nothing wrong with being an artist, and I applaud you if that's what you want to do.
But if you want to make a living, learn some business skills, find out where the money gigs are in your town, and go get them!
Playing the money gigs allows me the freedom to play the lower paying gigs that satisfies my artistic wants and needs. And I pay my band well.
If I can do it you can do it. |
This is a great posting and should be required reading for anyone sitting around waiting for the phone to ring. Some of these gigs Jason is talking about may not be in the limelight but they can always be done with quality and class. Parties, weddings, social gatherings, corporate events, teaching are all out there. Put your package together and sell it! Unless you live near me! |
Yes, it is a great post , but there are a couple of things I would like to point out.
Jason is certainly not the first trumpet player to support himself as a working musician. There are tons of guys that have done it all over the country. I also supported myself by working every kind of gig imaginable, latin bands, dixieland bands, german polka bands, rhythm and blues bands, Pops symphony concerts , wedding variety bands, brass quintets,
rodeo bands, circus bands, big bands,etc. etc. ...you get the idea. I did this all through my twenties and half of my thirties. In fact I never had a day job until I was 34 when my son was born and that is when I started teaching. So Jason has not really blazed any new trails there with his post.
When Jason says "make a fine living" is the point I wanted to discuss.
It is one thing for a young man to support his self as a working trumpet player ( not really that difficult at all)and quite another to support a family. Can you say :
mortage ?
utilities ?
car payments ?
car insurance ?
car repairs ?
health insurance ?
food ?
clothing?
diapers ?
school supplies?
hospital bills?
toys for your kids ?
gifts for your wife ?
vacations ?
... and the hits just keep on coming.
I am not trying to put Jason down at all , because I have done the same thing and certainly enjoyed it and was proud of it . But what I am saying is that very few players can raise a family on what they can make by simply playing gigs alone , in fact the percentage of heavy weight players in NY and LA that support themselves and their family by playing their horn is a very small percentage .
I guess what I am trying to get across is that it comes down to what you want out of life and sometimes as one gets older, life changes and you have to adapt to those changes ,but that certainly does not mean that you cannot be a dedicated and working musician your whole life. I still work every gig that I get called for , which by the way keeps me a lot busier than I want to be , but I would rather be too busy than not busy enough.
Edit: BTW, the OP is a arrogant, pretensious, over educated, snob who has an entirely over rated opinion of himself, he has posted his dribble here before under a couple of different log on names and it always the came old crap with him, this is how he gets his jollies. In fact I doubt that anyone outside of his little circle has ever heard of him. |
You're blocking again, tell us what you REALLY think....
_________________
"There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860
☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚ |
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A.N.A.Mendez
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 5227
Location: ca.
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| textr wrote: | | A.N.A.Mendez wrote: | I too was flummoxed.....
How's that prewar? |
A.N.A.
I too have been flummoxed before ...it is very painful.
LOL |
Yes, you can't really put it into words till you've been there!
_________________
"There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860
☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚ |
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veery715
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 4313
Location: Ithaca NY
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I seems to me that the OP started this thread as a test to see how the rest of us would endure such self-agrandizing without flying off the screenname (handle). The more annoyed and outraged we become the better he likes it.
Let's not bite. I'm with trumpetjoel on this. Can we go out of our way to be respectful in our posting? IMO it is worth a try.
On thread: there have been staggeringly enormous changes in the manner and method in which creative content is delivered to today's consumer. Jazz clubs, never a commonplace venue, have yielded up some ground to YouTube and many other cyber outlets. Intellectual property rights have been assaulted from all sides and producers have taken the path of least resistance using internet distribution and 99 cent tunes as an attempt to foible the dastardly file sharers.
Live music only happens if you're there - and that means going out of your apartment, dorm room, townhouse, country estate, etc, and placing your physical body in the acute proximity of other humans. This may even require something as outdated as "social skills".
Jazz is no deader than opera, or ballet, or any other performance art. Their audiences are simply staying home, refining an insular life style enabled by the same modern conveniences which bring us here to this forum.
If we want that to change, we need to get out there and support the public performances, to encourage others to do the same. and to toss a few extra bucks in the hat when it is passed. We need to lean on restaurant and club owners to hire live musicians. We need to be much more supportive of music and arts in our schools - kids raised on music become musicians and concert goers, not to mention better at math and critical thinking.
"In a mellow tone, that's the way to live.
If you mope and groan, somethings got to give."
veery |
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junkyt
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 696
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| veery715 wrote: | If we want that to change, we need to get out there and support the public performances, to encourage others to do the same. and to toss a few extra bucks in the hat when it is passed. We need to lean on restaurant and club owners to hire live musicians. We need to be much more supportive of music and arts in our schools - kids raised on music become musicians and concert goers, not to mention better at math and critical thinking.
"In a mellow tone, that's the way to live.
If you mope and groan, somethings got to give."
veery |
Amen, brother! Preach it!!!
_________________
Check out my new blog about the life of a working musician: OneWorkingMusician.com |
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Scorpion
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 1960
Location: hell
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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First off dude, we don't need to know that you have a flat in Paris, as well as a place in Tokyo. That's extraneous info. Also you're probably from America, so saying "glace" sounds pretentious.
I agree with you that the 60's were a pivotal time in Jazz history though, and that we lost a lot of influential figures, both in and apart from Jazz. I also whole heartedly agree that Jazz would be in a better place had they not died as soon as they did (maybe this applies less to the Kennedy's and King as much as Little, Lafarro, etc.) But could not the same be said of Clifford Brown, Charlie Parker, and other from the previous generation who left us too soon?
Your argument about hearing new trumpet players and thinking "that's nice, but..." I don't take too keen to that. I hear Dizzy and could easily go to Roy Eldrige. I hear Freddie and could easily go to Clifford. There a a great number of guys now who play well and in their own style.
Age doesn't factor into anything. Coltrane didn't really make a name for himself until he was older than most of the cats he was playing with. The "training ground" back in the day was the Jam. Now-a-days the jam is still there. But the main training ground is the university.
If cats are coming out of the university system and not playing creatively, then blame the professors. It's your job to educate these guys. I went through the university system, and i saw plenty of cats who couldn't play one original idea get a degree they shouldn't have gotten.
I know plenty of cats who play for a living, not one of them teaches in a university. All of them take students, and all of them teach creativity in Jazz before all else. With them, they aren't grading for a test or a jury, they're grading you for the real content of your playing.
Some cats say players aren't as good today as they were. Let's define good. If you're talking about sheer technique and virtuosity, then I whole heartedly disagree. People are doing some sick stuff now-a-days, at least technically. If you define good as using music to express personal feeling and original ideas, then i think there are good players now, but there are LEGIONS of copy machines out there.
I don't blame the previous generation of players. They're doing their job. They're playing and teaching. I blame the current generation of college professors. Grow the cajones to grade your students on originality and creativity instead of technical skill. If they can play the changes but it sounds like just like someone else, they've missed the point and they've been gypped out of their education by cats who are too concerned with looking smart and keeping flats in several foreign countries.
Bottom line with Jazz is this. If you are concerned with making money, pick a different line of work. Don't complain because you happened to choose a difficult profession in which to live comfortably. Do it because you love it and shut your trap.
_________________
-GET OVER HERE!
-1964 Olds Super Balanced Depleted Uranium single flue Harpoon (w/custom coprion hand guard i got from a 1925 Conn Erradicator.) Akright converted handle w/calfskin grip (143xx)
Last edited by Scorpion on Wed May 27, 2009 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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junkyt
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 696
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| textr wrote: | Yes, it is a great post , but there are a couple of things I would like to point out.
Jason is certainly not the first trumpet player to support himself as a working musician. There are tons of guys that have done it all over the country. I also supported myself by working every kind of gig imaginable, latin bands, dixieland bands, german polka bands, rhythm and blues bands, Pops symphony concerts , wedding variety bands, brass quintets,
rodeo bands, circus bands, big bands,etc. etc. ...you get the idea. I did this all through my twenties and half of my thirties. In fact I never had a day job until I was 34 when my son was born and that is when I started teaching. So Jason has not really blazed any new trails there with his post.
When Jason says "make a fine living" is the point I wanted to discuss.
It is one thing for a young man to support his self as a working trumpet player ( not really that difficult at all)and quite another to support a family. Can you say :
mortage ?
utilities ?
car payments ?
car insurance ?
car repairs ?
health insurance ?
food ?
clothing?
diapers ?
school supplies?
hospital bills?
toys for your kids ?
gifts for your wife ?
vacations ?
... and the hits just keep on coming.
I am not trying to put Jason down at all , because I have done the same thing and certainly enjoyed it and was proud of it . But what I am saying is that very few players can raise a family on what they can make by simply playing gigs alone , in fact the percentage of heavy weight players in NY and LA that support themselves and their family by playing their horn is a very small percentage .
I guess what I am trying to get across is that it comes down to what you want out of life and sometimes as one gets older, life changes and you have to adapt to those changes ,but that certainly does not mean that you cannot be a dedicated and working musician your whole life. I still work every gig that I get called for , which by the way keeps me a lot busier than I want to be , but I would rather be too busy than not busy enough. |
textr,
I don't mean to be overly argumentative nor single you out, but I just don't understand why folks feel the need make it sound almost impossible to be a happy, well-adjusted, financially stable working musician. Sure it takes work and dedication and blood, sweat and tears, but doesn't any profession?
Think of it this way: to become a doctor you need 4 years of college, 4 years of med school, 2 years of residency, 1 year internship, and then you can practice medicine. If you spent 11 years building your music business with the same amount of work and dedication, you'd be able to do every one of the things on your list. I've been at it since 2001 (I'm 41, btw, not some young whipper-snapper) and save for the kids, which I don't have yet, I have covered all of your list.
You bring up NY and LA too. I am the first to admit that I could never do what I do in either of those cities. The competition is too fierce. But here in Seattle I have been able to grow my own business to the point that I'm not only supporting myself, but in the last two years, through my new business J&J Music, have farmed out literally dozens of gigs totaling 10's of thousands of dollars to other working musicians in town. Those of us NOT in NY or LA have a much greater chance of actually supporting ourselves and our family.
And for the record, I never implied that I'm blazing any new trails. I just wanted to hold myself up as an example of someone who has made it work, and as much because of my ability to market my services as my actual talent.
_________________
Check out my new blog about the life of a working musician: OneWorkingMusician.com |
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textr
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1678
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| junkyt wrote: | | textr wrote: | Yes, it is a great post , but there are a couple of things I would like to point out.
Jason is certainly not the first trumpet player to support himself as a working musician. There are tons of guys that have done it all over the country. I also supported myself by working every kind of gig imaginable, latin bands, dixieland bands, german polka bands, rhythm and blues bands, Pops symphony concerts , wedding variety bands, brass quintets,
rodeo bands, circus bands, big bands,etc. etc. ...you get the idea. I did this all through my twenties and half of my thirties. In fact I never had a day job until I was 34 when my son was born and that is when I started teaching. So Jason has not really blazed any new trails there with his post.
When Jason says "make a fine living" is the point I wanted to discuss.
It is one thing for a young man to support his self as a working trumpet player ( not really that difficult at all)and quite another to support a family. Can you say :
mortage ?
utilities ?
car payments ?
car insurance ?
car repairs ?
health insurance ?
food ?
clothing?
diapers ?
school supplies?
hospital bills?
toys for your kids ?
gifts for your wife ?
vacations ?
... and the hits just keep on coming.
I am not trying to put Jason down at all , because I have done the same thing and certainly enjoyed it and was proud of it . But what I am saying is that very few players can raise a family on what they can make by simply playing gigs alone , in fact the percentage of heavy weight players in NY and LA that support themselves and their family by playing their horn is a very small percentage .
I guess what I am trying to get across is that it comes down to what you want out of life and sometimes as one gets older, life changes and you have to adapt to those changes ,but that certainly does not mean that you cannot be a dedicated and working musician your whole life. I still work every gig that I get called for , which by the way keeps me a lot busier than I want to be , but I would rather be too busy than not busy enough. |
textr,
I don't mean to be overly argumentative nor single you out, but I just don't understand why folks feel the need make it sound almost impossible to be a happy, well-adjusted, financially stable working musician. Sure it takes work and dedication and blood, sweat and tears, but doesn't any profession?
Think of it this way: to become a doctor you need 4 years of college, 4 years of med school, 2 years of residency, 1 year internship, and then you can practice medicine. If you spent 11 years building your music business with the same amount of work and dedication, you'd be able to do every one of the things on your list. I've been at it since 2001 (I'm 41, btw, not some young whipper-snapper) and save for the kids, which I don't have yet, I have covered all of your list.
You bring up NY and LA too. I am the first to admit that I could never do what I do in either of those cities. The competition is too fierce. But here in Seattle I have been able to grow my own business to the point that I'm not only supporting myself, but in the last two years, through my new business J&J Music, have farmed out literally dozens of gigs totaling 10's of thousands of dollars to other working musicians in town. Those of us NOT in NY or LA have a much greater chance of actually supporting ourselves and our family.
And for the record, I never implied that I'm blazing any new trails. I just wanted to hold myself up as an example of someone who has made it work, and as much because of my ability to market my services as my actual talent. |
Jason,
First of all, I in no way meant to offend you or put you down and in no way did I say that one cannot be happy, well adjusted and financially stable,as a working musician( been there, done that). I distinctly got the impession from your first post that you were earning your living solely as a trumpet player, but now that you have provided more info about yourself, it is clear that you are not earning your living just playing the trumpet, you are a business man who is making a living in the music business, basically you are now wearing two hats ... a trumpet player and a bandleader/ booking agent(well, maybe three hats), which is great . I have a few friends here in town that do the same thing, they spend a lot of time calling on hotels, restaurants , clubs, and they book wedding receptions and corporate parties and so on and so on. And they spend a lot of time on the phone with clients and musicians.
That is an entirely different thing than what you eluded to in your first post, from reading your first post I got the impression that you were earning all of your income from playing the trumpet(working as a feelance trumpet player).
I would also like to add that I am all for guys that have chosen to do what you are doing, because, as you stated, you are not only providing work for yourself but you are also providing work for other musicians(very important), and I commend you for that and you are an important part of the music business, but it is an entirely different thing that just earning your living 100% as a trumpet player which is what I did until I was 34 years old .
I also had an opportunity to do the same thing that you are now doing but I chose not to because I just was not interested in that end of things.
I hope I have not created the impression that I was trying to be negative in any way, and once again my hat is off to you(old expression) and I congratulate you on your success in the music business as a trumpet player/ bandleader / booking agent .
Edit:
I also did not mean to say you were a "young whipper snapper"
I just got the impression(mistakenly so) from reading your posts that were a much younger man, I meant no offense. |
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junkyt
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 696
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| textr wrote: | | junkyt wrote: | | textr wrote: | Yes, it is a great post , but there are a couple of things I would like to point out.
Jason is certainly not the first trumpet player to support himself as a working musician. There are tons of guys that have done it all over the country. I also supported myself by working every kind of gig imaginable, latin bands, dixieland bands, german polka bands, rhythm and blues bands, Pops symphony concerts , wedding variety bands, brass quintets,
rodeo bands, circus bands, big bands,etc. etc. ...you get the idea. I did this all through my twenties and half of my thirties. In fact I never had a day job until I was 34 when my son was born and that is when I started teaching. So Jason has not really blazed any new trails there with his post.
When Jason says "make a fine living" is the point I wanted to discuss.
It is one thing for a young man to support his self as a working trumpet player ( not really that difficult at all)and quite another to support a family. Can you say :
mortage ?
utilities ?
car payments ?
car insurance ?
car repairs ?
health insurance ?
food ?
clothing?
diapers ?
school supplies?
hospital bills?
toys for your kids ?
gifts for your wife ?
vacations ?
... and the hits just keep on coming.
I am not trying to put Jason down at all , because I have done the same thing and certainly enjoyed it and was proud of it . But what I am saying is that very few players can raise a family on what they can make by simply playing gigs alone , in fact the percentage of heavy weight players in NY and LA that support themselves and their family by playing their horn is a very small percentage .
I guess what I am trying to get across is that it comes down to what you want out of life and sometimes as one gets older, life changes and you have to adapt to those changes ,but that certainly does not mean that you cannot be a dedicated and working musician your whole life. I still work every gig that I get called for , which by the way keeps me a lot busier than I want to be , but I would rather be too busy than not busy enough. |
textr,
I don't mean to be overly argumentative nor single you out, but I just don't understand why folks feel the need make it sound almost impossible to be a happy, well-adjusted, financially stable working musician. Sure it takes work and dedication and blood, sweat and tears, but doesn't any profession?
Think of it this way: to become a doctor you need 4 years of college, 4 years of med school, 2 years of residency, 1 year internship, and then you can practice medicine. If you spent 11 years building your music business with the same amount of work and dedication, you'd be able to do every one of the things on your list. I've been at it since 2001 (I'm 41, btw, not some young whipper-snapper) and save for the kids, which I don't have yet, I have covered all of your list.
You bring up NY and LA too. I am the first to admit that I could never do what I do in either of those cities. The competition is too fierce. But here in Seattle I have been able to grow my own business to the point that I'm not only supporting myself, but in the last two years, through my new business J&J Music, have farmed out literally dozens of gigs totaling 10's of thousands of dollars to other working musicians in town. Those of us NOT in NY or LA have a much greater chance of actually supporting ourselves and our family.
And for the record, I never implied that I'm blazing any new trails. I just wanted to hold myself up as an example of someone who has made it work, and as much because of my ability to market my services as my actual talent. |
Jason,
First of all, I in no way meant to offend you or put you down and in no way did I say that one cannot be happy, well adjusted and financially stable,as a working musician( been there, done that). I distinctly got the impession from your first post that you were earning your living solely as a trumpet player, but now that you have provided more info about yourself, it is clear that you are not earning your living just playing the trumpet, you are a business man who is making a living in the music business, basically you are now wearing two hats ... a trumpet player and a bandleader/ booking agent(well, maybe three hats), which is great . I have a few friends here in town that do the same thing, they spend a lot of time calling on hotels, restaurants , clubs, and they book wedding receptions and corporate parties and so on and so on. And they spend a lot of time on the phone with clients and musicians.
That is an entirely different thing than what you eluded to in your first post, from reading your first post I got the impression that you were earning all of your income from playing the trumpet(working as a feelance trumpet player).
I would also like to add that I am all for guys that have chosen to do what you are doing, because, as you stated, you are not only providing work for yourself but you are also providing work for other musicians(very important), and I commend you for that and you are an important part of the music business, but it is an entirely different thing that just earning your living 100% as a trumpet player which is what I did until I was 34 years old .
I also had an opportunity to do the same thing that you are now doing but I chose not to because I just was not interested in that end of things.
I hope I have not created the impression that I was trying to be negative in any way, and once again my hat is off to you(old expression) and I congratulate you on your success in the music business as a trumpet player/ bandleader / booking agent .
Edit:
I also did not mean to say you were a "young whipper snapper"
I just got the impression(mistakenly so) from reading your posts that were a much younger man, I meant no offense. |
I think we have pulled off the seemingly impossible, textr: talking through an issue and coming to an understanding without resorting to flaming and snide remarks.
Yay for us!!!
I appreciate the opportunity to talk about this stuff, especially in a public forum where there are indeed "young whipper-snappers" reading. I believe that the way the music will thrive is by those folks taking the plunge, as both you and I have, and carving out a living however they can. There are many paths to it, and I like to be as encouraging as possible.
Hope you're getting some great gigs these days!
And this whole conversation has inspired me to start a new blog to talk about my life as a working musician, in the hopes that others will see that they can do it too. I've registered the domain oneworkingmusician.com and will have the blog up and running soon. I hope y'all will check it out and post your own comments and stories.
_________________
Check out my new blog about the life of a working musician: OneWorkingMusician.com |
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veery715
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 4313
Location: Ithaca NY
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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In honor of the textr/junkyt achievement I hereby pledge to take the high road in my point/counterpoint with other TH posters. This road avoids:
Name-calling
Flaming
Put -downs
Belittling
Jokes at other's expense
Mean-spiritedness
Biting sarcasm
Public critique of posting style, spelling, grammar, or perceived intent.
It does not preclude the use of my sense of humor, the stating of my personal taste and preferences and vigorous disagreement with that of others, or the occasional off-thread comment. It aknowledges that buffoons and pompous fools need no assistance in the display of their personality shortcomings, and that even the worst of the worst is entilted to be treated with respect.
I do reserve the right to PM another poster in the hope of offering positive feedback regarding issues of clarity, or even some carefully worded admonishment concerning generally-accepted posting etiquette.
Sworn to before those who read this post, this day, May 28th, 2009,
by veery715 (asher hockett)
Any who care to join me in this pledge may add their names below: |
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