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ajna
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:38 am    Post subject: leadpipebuzz youtube Reply with quote

Is there someone who can publish a video with "Bill Adam" leadpipe buzzing? I am really interested in how it shall sound.
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kramergfy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This would be very helpful if anyone is up for it.[/b]
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Adam changes the sound for every student depending on their sound on that given day. There is no universal sound.
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JazzmanGIANT
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it just a sound at Concert Eb on the leadpipe? I did the buzzing for a while, I'll see if I can get something up.
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JazzmanGIANT
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just take out your tuning slide, get a tuner to make sure you are near the correct pitch (Concert Eb if I remember correctly on non-reversed leadpipes), and blow. You'll know if the sound resonates well by the presence of any overtones on the device. If it sounds stuffy and doesn't feel right, then try again until it sounds open and feels natural.
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The thing to judge in any jazz artist is, does the man project and does he have ideas. MilesDavis
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Olds Ambassador 1963
Laskey 65MC
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bs
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disregard the last two posts and take advice/example from someone who uses this technique daily.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take the main tuning slide out. Pull out the mouthpiece and blow through the mouthpiece with the lips close together, but not so close so as to "buzz". Slowly insert the end of the mouthpiece into the receiver while blowing. The resistance of the leadpipe should create a buzz to occur. In this way, your embouchure should be set but relaxed, and the buzz should come as a product of the added resistance, not as a product of "buzzing" into a mouthpiece. After you get the buzz going on concert Eb, there are several additional things to do, once you put the tuning slide back into the horn. Those including chromatic long tones, chromatic expanding scales, Schlossberg Studies, and a great deal more. Mr. Adam would assign for use depending upon each student's individual needs.

You are working for a full air stream, a relaxed embouchure, and a big tone. Rest as much as you play, which can easily be achieved if you do it with another player, and play the exercises back and forth at one another from across the room. It is a great "buddy" exercise.

Hope this helps,
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bs wrote:
Disregard the last two posts and take advice/example from someone who uses this technique daily.


I think the point of the thread is there are many who don't have this opportunity. While it's true that subtle nuances will be fine tuned to a specific player's needs, it's also true that someone can try this for years and never get much benefit, while a simple example could change all that ...
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johnnydtrumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with what bs wrote. This is a very misunderstood and misinterpreted method so to simply ask for an example would not get the point out of what you are truly trying to achieve. This excersise is meant as a centerting excersise, for the body and the mind. Yes there are technical things you are striving for but these are outweighed by the mental conection you are trying to set up.

Many players look at excersises like this and think "If I can only produce this one excersise then it will act like the magic bullet and fix everything else." The Adams, Stamp, Caruso, etc. take years of study and assisted study to gain true results. Much of them can be learned solo but it is recomended that you search out someone who is seen as an expert on that method and pick their brain, schedule a lesson, find a way to learn the way it should be learned.

Lead pipe playing can be a great tool but should not be looked at as a singular element or as simply buzzing. Do the research, talk to the players, get some lessons and do the work.

John Dover
www.youtube.com/johndovertrumpet
www.myspace.com/johndovertrumpet
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kramergfy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi John,

I agree with what you said regarding years of dedicated hard work (no one truly believes there's some magic bullet..I hope), however I still think it would be helpful for the less fortunate to get an idea of what many of the Adam students refer to as the "reedy", "overtones jumping-out-at-you" sound of proper leadpipe playing.

Clearly we all need our own individual needs to develop our sound, but an example of what it can sound like would lead us in the right direction I think. It would be cautioned that everyone will sound a little different, but setting a proper example couldn't hurt that much could it?

Billy B wrote:
Mr. Adam changes the sound for every student depending on their sound on that given day. There is no universal sound.


This makes sense to me for developing students. Correct me if I'm misinformed but I've read here before that there is a common sound amongst successful Adam students; if this is the case, wouldn't that be the ideal sound to strive for?

dr_trumpet wrote:

Hope this helps,


Thanks for that; this is very helpful.
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Last edited by kramergfy on Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johnnydtrumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Craig,

I see what you are getting at. I believe what I was trying to explain is that a youtube example would be only half the equation. Part of the concept (in the beginning especially) is to have feed back from an outside source that is in front of the bell. That way you get that input from a "trained" or even partialy trained ear as far as finding the sound you are shooting for. Just watching a video would not provide that and could end up confusing people even more. Especially since it is sooooooo difficult to get good quality sound on those.

Also most of the high quality teachers that teach this and other pedagogy are usually quite open into finding solutions to get you the feedback/information you need.

Feel free to PM me as I have some ideas on how to help get this out to people on a broad scale and could use some feedback myself.

John Dover
www.youtube.com/johndovertrumpet
www.myspace.com/johndovertrumpet
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JazzmanGIANT
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your goal is to play relaxed, centered, and naturally with a very natural approach to the horn, then what I said wasn't wrong. Honestly, this forum is so "this is right, you are wrong" sometimes that it seems that its some peoples' goal to undermine the thoughts of others. Sorry if I made the mystical topic of leadpipe buzzing seem too simple. It works for me at least, and I wanted to share it. At least I am sharing what info I have rather than just crapping on someones info yet not giving any. If my info is wrong to some of you, sorry, but at least I tried. This is a FORUM by the way.

No disrespect
JMG
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The thing to judge in any jazz artist is, does the man project and does he have ideas. MilesDavis
"Always be heard - no matter the dynamics."-Mr Adolph Herseth
Yamaha Xeno RGS 2008
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Laskey 65MC
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JazzmanGIANT wrote:
If your goal is to play relaxed, centered, and naturally with a very natural approach to the horn, then what I said wasn't wrong. Honestly, this forum is so "this is right, you are wrong" sometimes that it seems that its some peoples' goal to undermine the thoughts of others. Sorry if I made the mystical topic of leadpipe buzzing seem too simple. It works for me at least, and I wanted to share it. At least I am sharing what info I have rather than just crapping on someones info yet not giving any. If my info is wrong to some of you, sorry, but at least I tried. This is a FORUM by the way.

No disrespect
JMG


I hope that you didn't take my reply as attempting to attack you in any way, because that was not my intent. I solely wanted to share what I know and what I do with my students. Did it five times today during lessons....working on relaxed sound, full air stream, great tone.

I think you're personally looking for things if you see my post as attacking, but then again....
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JazzmanGIANT
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O no sir, I have absolutely(!) no beef here with you (or anyone for that matter). I think your advice is good and you should be able to say whatever you want. There are just some people (who are to remain unnamed) who are out to marginalize my advice and prevent me from saying what I wish, just because it is me. That's as far as this is going.

Thank you for caring about my feelings though

JMG
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The thing to judge in any jazz artist is, does the man project and does he have ideas. MilesDavis
"Always be heard - no matter the dynamics."-Mr Adolph Herseth
Yamaha Xeno RGS 2008
Bach Strad 1973
Olds Ambassador 1963
Laskey 65MC
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JazzmanGIANT wrote:
O no sir, I have absolutely(!) no beef here with you (or anyone for that matter). I think your advice is good and you should be able to say whatever you want. There are just some people (who are to remain unnamed) who are out to marginalize my advice and prevent me from saying what I wish, just because it is me. That's as far as this is going.

Thank you for caring about my feelings though

JMG


In the FWIW category, I think there are some people on here who do look to marginalize a lot....it is one of my least favorite things about TH.

I thought your ideas were good....keep sharing. Only way we all learn....
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kramergfy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to let you guys know that dr_trumpet's advice really helped me understand how to approach the pipe today; it was WAY different than I had been doing it.

Before I would first warm up on the mouthpiece, and then go to the leadpipe. I always found myself struggling to lip the pitch up, and force it up.

This time I did no mp buzzing today at all. Instead, I set my embouchure in the mouthpiece, blew with a small aperture making sure not to buzz, and then slowly inserted the leadpipe, and WOW; there was a major difference. Totally relaxed effortless sound and on pitch. There are miles to go for sure, but this is a huge step for me. My sound, range, and attacks were as good as they've been in a while. I followed this with stuff from the Greg Wing routine, and then since my session was short, just played a few musical phrases and solos.

What really helped me was the concept of the resistance causing the sound rather than buzzing my lips. I have been doing a LOT of mp buzzing...probably too much as I must have developed some tension in the lips from trying to force a quick response; to be sure of this, I mp buzzed a few notes after playing today and it was much more relaxed. This also relates to the concept brought up in the Pitch Center thread about "sighing" into the horn and letting the lips catch the air. I just didn't fully connect it until today.
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Last edited by kramergfy on Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnnydtrumpet wrote:
to simply ask for an example would not get the point out of what you are truly trying to achieve. This excersise is meant as a centerting excersise, for the body and the mind. Yes there are technical things you are striving for but these are outweighed by the mental conection you are trying to set up.


I agree w/ this wholeheartedly, but the above poster mentions progress nontheless. Isn't that the goal? Wouldn't that be furthered by a sound sample of good LP playing? Someone mentioned this much as "half the equation." Well, if people can plug in half and get positive results, will that make them more likely to pursue the other half, or less?
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_Daff
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was taught by someone who studied with Adam, similar to the way dr_trumpet describes it (sans the mp buzzing), but including the follow-up "chromatic long tones, chromatic expanding scales, Schlossberg Studies,......."

As far as finding the pitch, no need to hassle with a tuner, just pop out a quick F to get it in your head before pulling the slide. It soon becomes automatic.

Another thing that I was taught is to cup my hand just past the end of the leadpipe to bounce the sound back. Makes it much easier to hear/feel the sweet spot. Simply adjust the cupped hand to it's own 'feedback sweet spot', and you're all set.

This is all about a relaxed connection with setting up the waves in the pipe. You'll know when you've nailed it because the pipe literally sings with vibrancy.

It initially took me a few days to realize the benefit and, ever since, the first part of my ritual starts off with annoying the neighborhood ducks.

(edited missspeellling)


Last edited by _Daff on Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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bs
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMG....I am sure it is me who you feel is dissing you. The reason I wrote what I wrote is after hearing you play numerous times over the last months, I can hear in your sound that these principles are not part of your everyday practice. Since the OP was looking for good advice from someone that practices this, I made the reply that I made. I wasn't busting your chops, just trying to keep the correct info on the board. It is a forum, and correct info should be passed along on a forum board. No hard feelings....
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Matthew Anklan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Folks, his name is William ADAM.

Let's drop the "S" once and for all.
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