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A "story" about upstream/downstream playing



 
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RobertSlotte
Regular Member


Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:33 am    Post subject: A "story" about upstream/downstream playing Reply with quote

This is an interview with mr. Andrea Tofanelli from Roddys Trumpetsite.

Im not sure where to put it so Iwill just write it here in the "Fundamentals"
I think it can be an important read especially for thoes who teach trumpet.


Interview begins:

When i began to study at the Conservatory (i repeat that here in Italy
is different from US, where the Conservatory is considered like an
University), as i narrate you before, i was already working in the
Tuscany area with bands, dance music bands, big bands and also something
with classical music.


My embouchure was strong, i played with 1/4 higher lip and 3/4 lower
lip, with my trumpet inclined up (like now) and the lower lip open on
the red part.


You know that embouchures are different from trumpeter to trumpeter.


There is not only one right embouchure for everyone, because everyone has
his own face, jaw and teeth formation, so i think your embouchure should

be the most natural possible.


But my teacher got the terrible idea to change my embouchure, telling me
to play in the most known classical embouchure, that is 3/4 higher lip
and 1/4 lower lip, inclining my trumpet down ...what a disaster!

I can not play like anything more, and after two lines of an excercise my lips
were... cooked. I did 3 years like this, and my teacher did not know
what to do.

I keep on working in the Tuscany area as before but playing 3rd or 4th trumpet in the sections. I really was down, and very sad. One day i decided to talk with my teacher, with the suppot of my parents, and told him that i wanted to come back to my natural embouchure. It was the only thing to do, because also other experiments we tried were been a failure.

He agreed, and i started again to study my embouchure.

In less than 4 months i was ok, but not completely. In fact, i was not able
to find again the exact embouchure i had before entering at the
Conservatory. So, i was able to play and do again lead trumpet and take
successfully my intermediate examinations at school, but there was
something different, and i was not completely satisfied.


Two months before my final examination for the diploma i read about

Mr Armando Ghitalla's seminary in Italy and i went there immediately.

He told me to put my lips into the mouthpiece, but without changing my high
inclination of the horn, and try to play very closed, building a wall
with my lips...it's hard to explain with words, but when my alumns see
it, they immediately understand.

Anyway, mr Ghitalla did the miracle...i changed again my embouchure, as mr Ghitalla told me, and i followed and practiced all the things he explained during the seminary. After a month i was a new trumpeter, a new life was started and i did my final
examination at the Conservatory successfully, with highest full marks (10 and praise, the only one in trumpet in all the story of the Conservatory of Lucca).

You know the rest...
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Conn6B
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 816
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: A "story" about upstream/downstream playing Reply with quote

I have a similar story.

Every brass player is born with a specific embouchure type.
If he tries to play with an embouchure type that is different from the one he is born with, then he is doomed to be a lousy player.

From 5th grade through 9th grade I tried to imitate the best trumpet players in school band, but the more I practiced the worse I became.

I finally dropped out of band.

About that time my best friend told me that I might have been born with an upstream embouchure and that therefore it would be wrong for me to imitate those downstream players.
I made a couple of changes (I started playing with slightly more lower lip than upper lip, started tilting the trumpet slightly upward) and I had immediate, dramatic improvement in tone, range, and endurance.

Soon after that I had to quit trumpet entirely because I was too busy just trying to stay alive as I went out into the cold cruel world.

After a 30 year hiatus, about 5 years ago, my wife got me a used 1972 Getzen 300 trumpet for about $90.
After about 1 minute of warming up I was playing a scale up to a High C.
Five years later I am now playing an octave higher than that.

Lesson of the story:
If you are having problems playing, and you don't know your embouchure type, the first thing you need to do is learn your embouchure type.
At the very least, confirm whether you were born with an upstream or a downstream embouchure so that you can make adjustments to conform to the embouchure you were born with.

For 2 drawings that illustrate the differences between downstream and upstream embouchure, see the bottom of the Web page at
http://www.airstreamdynamics.com/index2.htm
Click on the drawings to get larger images.

For more-detailed info,
go to
http://www.trombone.org/articles/library/viewarticles.asp?ArtID=240
scroll down to the middle of the very long Web page
to the heading "Reinhardt's Embouchure Types".

Reinhardt didn't "invent" or develop the idea for those embouchure types.
Reinhardt merely analyzed the embouchures of thousands of brass players and gave names to the different embouchures that brass players had been using all along.

- Morris, upstream embouchure
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RobertSlotte
Regular Member


Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morris,

Yes I also have experiensed almost exactly the same thing.
I do think it is important thogh to know that Reinhardt was maby not the God of embouchure knowledge.
As I explore the knowledge of teachers nowdays I come to see that for example a type IV could have many different caracteristics to his embouchure.

TO say tahat a Person is BORN with an embouchure type I think is wrong.
For example: I can play as a downstreamer if I want to, but I will get different results like not as good high register but perhaps a little better sound and my endurance would be worse than if I play as an upstreamer.
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