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Billy B
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 Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I just finished a lesson with a student who is going into 7th grade. He has Freddie Freeloader, Cantaloupe Island under his belt and we are working on memorizing his contest solo. Our most important talent to develop is our memory. Do it. No excuses. And yes they should not perform unless they practice.
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Scorpion
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy B wrote: | | And yes they should not perform unless they practice. |
"NEVER PRACTICE, ALWAYS PERFORM!" - Bud Herseth
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Billy B
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Location: Des Moines
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: | | Billy B wrote: | | And yes they should not perform unless they practice. |
"NEVER PRACTICE, ALWAYS PERFORM!" - Bud Herseth |
Yeah,yeah,yeah, 
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Shaft
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Seriously, You can say the same about renaissance music, Baroque, 12 tone, serialism, acid rock or whatever you want. If you are good enough to do what you are creating people will listen. It is up to you to be the business person that it takes to get your name out there. Make your business card, put it in the appropriate appropriate mutually beneficial business niches ears and work out a deal. Bridal shops for the wedding guys, flower shops, etc.
Get creative. If you don't suck you won;t go extinct. Nobody cares about your range or your double tonguing. Just make some worth while music and don't suck. If you do that YOU will carry on whatever art form you are doing.
Same in science and whatever. IT IS NO USE CREATING SOMETHING NO ONE WANTS. If you are a good jazz player then get good jazz players in your band. Make that music and make it good.
What else do you need to succeed?
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MikeyMike
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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What else? People willing to PAY for live music.
Yes, there are clubs. And, yes, there are jobs. But we're talking vestigial remains in both quantity AND quality. The NY club scene of the 40's and 50's doesn't exist. Anywhere. The equivalent of the Blue Note? Doesn't exist. Anywhere.
It's not just jazz. Most rock & roll bands play for bar change while a handful of top acts make huge sums - and those aging groups certainly won't be around much longer.
Jazz is dead? LIVE is dead.
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Shaft
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Sure you can say that. I don't have any of your cd's. I don't see anyone here B!thc!n that makes money with their art though, and I never will. Just like you will never see me B!tch!n with my art, I make money.
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JazzmanGIANT
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy B wrote: | | I just finished a lesson with a student who is going into 7th grade. He has Freddie Freeloader, Cantaloupe Island under his belt and we are working on memorizing his contest solo. Our most important talent to develop is our memory. Do it. No excuses. And yes they should not perform unless they practice. |
That is not what I said. What I was saying was is it allowable for someone who is still learning, to perform, even if its imperfect? You aren't going to get a 20 minute gig anywhere, so having a blues or 2 memorized is not going to get there. Younger players shouldn't have the burden of memorizing memorizing memorizing before they can set foot in a jazz environment. Memory develops with practice and time. It can't be done at once.
I think a killer for the music biz is modern technology and the constant demand for perfection in the art. Nothing is perfect, but perfect is the standard.
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The thing to judge in any jazz artist is, does the man project and does he have ideas. MilesDavis
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westview1900
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khedger
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Now print out a list of the 1,000,000,000,000 jazz musicians (just in NY) that are trying to get booked into those clubs, never mind the touring musicians and out of towners.
keith |
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tommy t.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| khedger wrote: |
Now print out a list of the 1,000,000,000,000 jazz musicians (just in NY) that are trying to get booked into those clubs, never mind the touring musicians and out of towners.
keith |
And a list of the 10,000 jazz performance grads being turned out annual by nations "music schools." 
Tommy T.
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Shaft
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:20 am Post subject: |
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That's why I did not go where there would be 10 trillion people. I have a friend that plays jazz in a town of less than 40,000 people 5 or 6 nights a week. He is in a few different groups and has worked out deals with restaurants, bars and has networked for one time gigs that he pins in his schedule.
Nothing will come of whining about why "there aren't more jobs".
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junkyt
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Shaft wrote: | | Nothing will come of whining about why "there aren't more jobs". |
Amen!
I wonder how many people doing the whining are gigging musicians anyway?
I'm making a living at it. If I can do it you can do it. But the first step is being proactive. The modern-day musician has to be player/booker/marketer/internet guru/salesman/bandleader/schmoozer. If you employ these skills and do it with a positive attitude you can find work.
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rockford
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Billy B wrote: | | The more likely scenario for the waning interest in Jazz is the fault of the musicians themselves. Too many times the public is exposed to unprepared, poorly dressed musicians with an attitude. They show up with their Real Books, no set list, ignore the audience and expect to be paid for what is essentially a glorified jam session. Sorry, but playing the head, everyone solos, then play the head out is really boring. In fact, it sucks. And my wife is offended by such lackadaisical performances. |
Great point! A lot of jazz musicians seem to buy into the idea that their music should be spontanious or have a certain freedom to be real jazz. While that's true enough this often translates to an excuse to not practice. That's our big downfall. The odds of coming up with a really great, interesting solo off the cuff or the band sounding really tight is pretty slim unless you've worked things out ahead of time. A lot of the groups I see around town or at parties are winging it and they sound that way. Nondescript solos wandering aimlessly through a pallet of ambiguity. Personally, I think it takes much more practice and effort to sound spontaneous and to be truly free of the labor of performance.
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Bill Siegfried
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westview1900
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| khedger wrote: |
Now print out a list of the 1,000,000,000,000 jazz musicians (just in NY) that are trying to get booked into those clubs, never mind the touring musicians and out of towners.
keith |
I don't know how many qualified jazz musicians can't find work because of the lack of venues, but wasn't it always true to some extent that the number of people looking to perform cannot be sustained by the capacity of the existing clubs? And when I wrote qualified, I know that it means different things to different people, but I think that many people think that they can be good jazz performers when in fact, they cannot attract a large enough audience on their own to economically sustain themselves.
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Billy B
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:34 am Post subject: |
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One solution to the problem is the willingness of performers to give time to those dveloping their talents. The fabulous players at the Jamey Aebersold workshops are a fine example of this. Unless performers take a deep interest in education, the consumers will remain unintersted. And this includes the huge number of adults who attend such camps.
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MikeyMike
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| junkyt wrote: |
I wonder how many people doing the whining are gigging musicians anyway?
I'm making a living at it. If I can do it you can do it. |
Sorry, that's completely devoid of logic and loaded with bad assumptions as well. Here's another example which may make the fallacious reasoning more obvious: Miles had a Ferrari and a Manhattan penthouse so every other trumpeter can, too. No need to touch on the implications of the phrase "making a living."
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ConnArtist
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeyMike wrote: | | junkyt wrote: |
I wonder how many people doing the whining are gigging musicians anyway?
I'm making a living at it. If I can do it you can do it. |
Sorry, that's completely devoid of logic and loaded with bad assumptions as well. Here's another example which may make the fallacious reasoning more obvious: Miles had a Ferrari and a Manhattan penthouse so every other trumpeter can, too. No need to touch on the implications of the phrase "making a living." |
Since you dragged logic into this, I need to point out junkyt has made no logical errors, though you have.
A truer representation of junkyt's argument is as follows:
Assumption 1: One necessary skill to be a paid performer is to play an instrument
Assumption 2: One necessary skill to be a paid performer is to book one's own gigs
Assumption 3: One necessary skill to be a paid performer is to market one's band
Assumption 4: One necessary skill to be a paid performer is to be an internet guru
Assumption 5: One necessary skill to be a paid performer is to be a salesman
Assumption 6: ... bandleader. Assumption 7: ... schmoozer
Assumption 8: All skills in 1-7 can be obtained by a person of average (or better) intelligence
Assumption 9: One can be a paid performer if and only if assumptions 1 through 8 are satisfied.
Argument:
It is given that junkyt satisfies Assumptions 1 through 7
If junkyt is of average or better intelligence, then he satisfies assumption 8, and it neccessarily follows that he can be a paid performer.
Junkyt is of average (or better) intelligence.
Therefore, junkyt *can* be a paid performer.
Now junkyt makes the assumption that the reader is also of average (or better) intelligence.
There is no room for logic error, one simply accepts his assumptions or does not. Most likely assumptions 8 or 9, or that the reader is of average intelligence, are elligable for disagreement.
MikeyMike's argument follows a very classic error of logic, which he incorrectly characterizes junkyt's as having (though it does not).
MikeyMike's argument can be simplified as follows:
Being rich and famous is equivalent to possessing an expensive car and an expensive abode.
One rich and famous person plays trumpet.
Therefore all trumpet players are rich and famous, and equivalently possess expensive abodes and cars.
Where MikeyMike commits the error of logic is assuming that being rich and famous, and playing trumpets are identical sets. OR put a little more simply: All horses are blue does not mean all blue things are horses.
We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.
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MikeyMike
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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"I can do it so you can do it" is logical? Sorry. See: Logical fallacies, Socrates, syllogism and especially categorical syllogism.
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JazzmanGIANT
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Our music is dying because instead of practicing we are arguing like this.
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The thing to judge in any jazz artist is, does the man project and does he have ideas. MilesDavis
"Always be heard - no matter the dynamics."-Mr Adolph Herseth
Yamaha Xeno RGS 2008
Bach Strad 1973
Olds Ambassador 1963
Laskey 65MC |
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ConnArtist
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Aha... I should probably add the assumptions that
each of 1-7 requires certain amount of available time, and each of 1-7 requires a certain amount of drive/will. That a sufficient number of venues exists is a given, or obviously one would move to a different location if their goal was to be a paid performer.
You are correct that a person's willpower and available time might not be equal to junkyt's.
Edit: P.S. Did the above framed argument seem like I have had no training in the classics or logic or philosophy?
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"Stomvi" PhrankenPhlugel w/ Blessing copper bell
1958 Conn 18A cornet
1962 Conn 9A cornet (yes, the Unicorn )
Reynolds Onyx cornet
c. 1955? Besson 10-10 trumpet
1939 Martin Imperial Handcraft “Model 37”
1986 Bach Strad 37 ML |
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