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Play the C or transpose with a Bb ?


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Treblehorn
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Play the C or transpose with a Bb ? Reply with quote

New music was passed out this week in a community band that jhatpro and I are in. Holst, Shostakovich, Elgar and others, it's going to be a fun season.

About half the pieces came with C trumpet scores and no Bb however. With 15 or so trumpets (and a couple cornets) in the band, I'm betting only Jim, myself and MAYBE 1-2 others have C trumpets.

So, should we use the "C's", or transpose to better match the rest of the section? The rest of the section is a mish-mash of skills and horns being a community band, so blending regardless really isn't much of an option!
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ThatDude
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think in this situation you could do as you wish. If your C trp doesn't get enough use and you want to play it you could. If you want to work on your transposition you could stick to the Bb. Like you said, there are a bunch of horns and skill levels, it's for fun, do as you wish.
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatDude is right on the mark - terrific advice.
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Hack001
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always play C trumpet. For everything. Even if it says Bb.
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cdeanw
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hack001 wrote:
Always play the trumpet that makes the piece--and by extension, you sound the best for everything; even if it says Bb.


fixed.
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Play the C or transpose with a Bb ? Reply with quote

Treblehorn wrote:
The rest of the section is a mish-mash of skills and horns being a community band, so blending regardless really isn't much of an option!


In this case, do whatever floats your boat the highest. If you need to work on your transposition, play Bb. I you're less comfortable on your C, use that. If neither is an issue, play your favorite. Or use both horns, and switch between phrases.
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bike&ed
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a community band setting witht that many trumpets, you can pretty much do whatever you want. It'll be fun either way!

...man, posting on TH during shows is a blast, it makes me feel so naughty!
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R.Sole
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For shitake and giggles, I say E flat.
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ewetho
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My band is all Bb although several have C's. One of the leads even played it one night instead of his Bb and it was just fine.
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Treblehorn
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ewetho wrote:
My band is all Bb although several have C's. One of the leads even played it one night instead of his Bb and it was just fine.


I'm liking this! Play the C all season, and transpose as needed for the Bb scores.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hack001 wrote:
Always play C trumpet. For everything. Even if it says Bb.

Personally I always do the opposite. Play Bb for everything. Even if it says Bb (or C).

Seriously, play whatever you feel comfortable with - like nieuwguyski said. I started to play everything on Bb about ten years ago because I decided I'd rather have to think a bit than fight my horn to play the notes. It had the side effect of resulting in a rounder sound, better intonation, and improving my transposition.

If I didn't have to fight the Bach C I used in college at the time, it might have been different, but I've yet to find a C that I enjoy playing in all registers. It was fine C to C, but the E and Eb were fussy (as usual) and it really shut off at the G above the staff. Everything from there on up was more of a struggle than it was worth. My Bb didn't have those problems.
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ConnArtist
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grab your C horn, pull the tuning slide out to make it a B-natural horn, and play the fingerings for the music as if you were transposing for Bb. Then see if anyone even notices.
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6pk
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hack001 wrote:
Always play C trumpet. For everything. Even if it says Bb.


I would not entirely agree. I would say it depends on the C you play on, and even mouthpiece etc. IF you're using a large bore with a big pipe and mouthpiece etc, and you're properly aware of the dodgy notes on the C, then this type of playing will keep you in shape. But if you play quite a tight C, or you're not fully aware of the traps of that instrument, it could mess you up. E.g. if the concert C is really high on your C, and your muscle memory develops a really strong instinct for pulling that note down really hard, you could be doing that on other key horns, when its not necessary, and not being aware of it, and sounding like a right donkey.

When I switch horns, I cross finger a lot, and I mean way more than just e's and eb's. I do it, so I can keep the same feeling as much as possible as the Bb. No matter how awesome one is on an instrument, you'll always need to switch sometimes, and the Bb is tried and trusted home place to begin from. (I'm more than aware that the greats of Herseth and Murphy , didn't switch that often so please don't give me an account of how so and so played Bolero on a C tuba etc)

So with all that in mind, unless you really need to practice the C, keep using the Bb, and you'll only get better.
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just make sure the guys using Bbs are transposing. I've sat in on more than one church gig, a couple times doing Rutter "Gloria" where the guys had C parts but didn't realize it at first. Ditto one time for the opening of a community band concert doing "Fanfare La Peri", man, I thought I knew those tunes... Sounded more like the Ives version- until I said something everyone just kept playing (and conductor kept conducting), just chalking it up to dissonance, I guess.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig Swartz wrote:
Just make sure the guys using Bbs are transposing. I've sat in on more than one church gig, a couple times doing Rutter "Gloria" where the guys had C parts but didn't realize it at first.

Yikes! That must have been murder for people with perfect pitch. Or anyone paying attention.

That's why I've always thought those 8:30am (or earlier) services are treacherous.
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hose
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Play the C or transpose with a Bb ? Reply with quote

Treblehorn wrote:
New music was passed out this week in a community band that jhatpro and I are in. Holst, Shostakovich, Elgar and others, it's going to be a fun season.

About half the pieces came with C trumpet scores and no Bb however. With 15 or so trumpets (and a couple cornets) in the band, I'm betting only Jim, myself and MAYBE 1-2 others have C trumpets.

So, should we use the "C's", or transpose to better match the rest of the section? The rest of the section is a mish-mash of skills and hornsbeing a community band, so blending regardless really isn't much of an option!


If it's the Holst, Shostakovich and Elgar, there should be Bb parts available from someplace. On the other hand, with "15 or so trpts with a mish-mash of skills", maybe just use your Bbs to play the C parts, not worry about transposing and hope that nobody notices. Sometimes I think I could actually get by with that with one of the bands I play in.
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BedfordTrumpeter
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like someone in the section might be tapped to do a written transposition for the less experienced players anyway.
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Treblehorn
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BedfordTrumpeter wrote:
Sounds like someone in the section might be tapped to do a written transposition for the less experienced players anyway.


I nominate jhatpro!!!!!

I'm not sure how the other folks are going to manage. I'm not the section leader so we'll just have to wait and see what the decisions are.
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Capt.Kirk
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not think it is going to matter much. How often do you actually full out the C trumpet? It might be a good excuse to pull the old girl out and take her out on the town a few nights! I mean she has to get tired of sitting at home in the closet waiting to be picked up!

I seriously doubt that a blending issue is going to be a big problem with 15 trumpets players at various levels of skill...What I mean is I am sure that the section is not a perfect blend right now with everyone on Bb's so one C trumpet is not going to stand out that much. I am pretty sure you can make your C blend in well enough! One of the first things we all learn as kids is how to hide in a section if we have not been doing our home work!LOL

So while it would be better to stay on Bb with the rest of the section and would probably help slow the aging process by doing the mental transposition exercise in ones head what fun would that be????? We like to have an excuse to get our specility toys out! It does not matter if we are talking male computer geeks,machinist,trumpet players or "insert trade or hobbie here" we love to show off our specialty tools that we only need once in a great while!
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee, thanks, trebleguy! I can barely balance my checkbook, let alone do a written transposition from anything to anything.

I do think you should bring your C horn, however. I want to see if cutting down the slides on a Bb really works. I'll bring the one I made by lengthening the slides on an Eb. Believe me, that took some doing!

As for the sound of our 15-horn section, think of a Peterbilt rally and you've got a good idea. From what I can see we have trumpets and cornets from Schilke, Bach, Besson, Yamaha and Monkey Ward. Blending? Fuggidaboudit. We're damn loud though.
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