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Treblehorn Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2004 Posts: 336 Location: Chicagoland
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: Play the C or transpose with a Bb ? |
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New music was passed out this week in a community band that jhatpro and I are in. Holst, Shostakovich, Elgar and others, it's going to be a fun season.
About half the pieces came with C trumpet scores and no Bb however. With 15 or so trumpets (and a couple cornets) in the band, I'm betting only Jim, myself and MAYBE 1-2 others have C trumpets.
So, should we use the "C's", or transpose to better match the rest of the section? The rest of the section is a mish-mash of skills and horns being a community band, so blending regardless really isn't much of an option! _________________ Alan
Whole buncha brass. Big, small, short, long, coiled and straight. Someday I'll be able to play them. |
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ThatDude Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Jul 2009 Posts: 372
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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I think in this situation you could do as you wish. If your C trp doesn't get enough use and you want to play it you could. If you want to work on your transposition you could stick to the Bb. Like you said, there are a bunch of horns and skill levels, it's for fun, do as you wish. |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4810
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Hack001 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 1685
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Always play C trumpet. For everything. Even if it says Bb. |
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cdeanw Regular Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 50
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Hack001 wrote: | Always play the trumpet that makes the piece--and by extension, you sound the best for everything; even if it says Bb. |
fixed. |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2349 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Play the C or transpose with a Bb ? |
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Treblehorn wrote: | The rest of the section is a mish-mash of skills and horns being a community band, so blending regardless really isn't much of an option! |
In this case, do whatever floats your boat the highest. If you need to work on your transposition, play Bb. I you're less comfortable on your C, use that. If neither is an issue, play your favorite. Or use both horns, and switch between phrases. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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bike&ed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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In a community band setting witht that many trumpets, you can pretty much do whatever you want. It'll be fun either way!
...man, posting on TH during shows is a blast, it makes me feel so naughty! |
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R.Sole Veteran Member
Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 164
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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For shitake and giggles, I say E flat. |
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ewetho Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2007 Posts: 1264 Location: Kankakee, IL
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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My band is all Bb although several have C's. One of the leads even played it one night instead of his Bb and it was just fine. _________________ Kanstul Chicago 1001
CG Personal
Schilke 20D2d
Schilke 20D2d 22 throat |
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Treblehorn Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2004 Posts: 336 Location: Chicagoland
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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ewetho wrote: | My band is all Bb although several have C's. One of the leads even played it one night instead of his Bb and it was just fine. |
I'm liking this! Play the C all season, and transpose as needed for the Bb scores. _________________ Alan
Whole buncha brass. Big, small, short, long, coiled and straight. Someday I'll be able to play them. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hack001 wrote: | Always play C trumpet. For everything. Even if it says Bb. |
Personally I always do the opposite. Play Bb for everything. Even if it says Bb (or C).
Seriously, play whatever you feel comfortable with - like nieuwguyski said. I started to play everything on Bb about ten years ago because I decided I'd rather have to think a bit than fight my horn to play the notes. It had the side effect of resulting in a rounder sound, better intonation, and improving my transposition.
If I didn't have to fight the Bach C I used in college at the time, it might have been different, but I've yet to find a C that I enjoy playing in all registers. It was fine C to C, but the E and Eb were fussy (as usual) and it really shut off at the G above the staff. Everything from there on up was more of a struggle than it was worth. My Bb didn't have those problems. |
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ConnArtist Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2008 Posts: 2832 Location: La-la Land (corner of 13th and 13th)
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Grab your C horn, pull the tuning slide out to make it a B-natural horn, and play the fingerings for the music as if you were transposing for Bb. Then see if anyone even notices. _________________ "Stomvi" PhrankenPhlugel w/ Blessing copper bell
1958 Conn 18A cornet
1962 Conn 9A cornet (yes, the Unicorn )
Reynolds Onyx cornet
c. 1955? Besson 10-10 trumpet
1939 Martin Imperial Handcraft “Model 37”
1986 Bach Strad 37 ML |
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6pk Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 Posts: 493 Location: London
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Hack001 wrote: | Always play C trumpet. For everything. Even if it says Bb. |
I would not entirely agree. I would say it depends on the C you play on, and even mouthpiece etc. IF you're using a large bore with a big pipe and mouthpiece etc, and you're properly aware of the dodgy notes on the C, then this type of playing will keep you in shape. But if you play quite a tight C, or you're not fully aware of the traps of that instrument, it could mess you up. E.g. if the concert C is really high on your C, and your muscle memory develops a really strong instinct for pulling that note down really hard, you could be doing that on other key horns, when its not necessary, and not being aware of it, and sounding like a right donkey.
When I switch horns, I cross finger a lot, and I mean way more than just e's and eb's. I do it, so I can keep the same feeling as much as possible as the Bb. No matter how awesome one is on an instrument, you'll always need to switch sometimes, and the Bb is tried and trusted home place to begin from. (I'm more than aware that the greats of Herseth and Murphy , didn't switch that often so please don't give me an account of how so and so played Bolero on a C tuba etc)
So with all that in mind, unless you really need to practice the C, keep using the Bb, and you'll only get better. |
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Craig Swartz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7770 Location: Des Moines, IA area
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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Just make sure the guys using Bbs are transposing. I've sat in on more than one church gig, a couple times doing Rutter "Gloria" where the guys had C parts but didn't realize it at first. Ditto one time for the opening of a community band concert doing "Fanfare La Peri", man, I thought I knew those tunes... Sounded more like the Ives version- until I said something everyone just kept playing (and conductor kept conducting), just chalking it up to dissonance, I guess. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Craig Swartz wrote: | Just make sure the guys using Bbs are transposing. I've sat in on more than one church gig, a couple times doing Rutter "Gloria" where the guys had C parts but didn't realize it at first. |
Yikes! That must have been murder for people with perfect pitch. Or anyone paying attention.
That's why I've always thought those 8:30am (or earlier) services are treacherous. |
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hose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 1854 Location: Winter Garden, FL
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Play the C or transpose with a Bb ? |
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Treblehorn wrote: | New music was passed out this week in a community band that jhatpro and I are in. Holst, Shostakovich, Elgar and others, it's going to be a fun season.
About half the pieces came with C trumpet scores and no Bb however. With 15 or so trumpets (and a couple cornets) in the band, I'm betting only Jim, myself and MAYBE 1-2 others have C trumpets.
So, should we use the "C's", or transpose to better match the rest of the section? The rest of the section is a mish-mash of skills and hornsbeing a community band, so blending regardless really isn't much of an option! |
If it's the Holst, Shostakovich and Elgar, there should be Bb parts available from someplace. On the other hand, with "15 or so trpts with a mish-mash of skills", maybe just use your Bbs to play the C parts, not worry about transposing and hope that nobody notices. Sometimes I think I could actually get by with that with one of the bands I play in. _________________ Dave Wisner
Picketts
Yamaha 6335RC
Yamaha 8335RS
Lawler Flugel
Kanstul cornet |
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BedfordTrumpeter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 504 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like someone in the section might be tapped to do a written transposition for the less experienced players anyway. _________________ CarolBrass 658R Bb | CarolBrass 506R Bb | CarolBrass 4000 C | Yamaha 631GS Flugel | CarolBrass 6882T Bb Cornet | Besson 60MD D/Eb | CarolBrass 7770F Picc. | Curry & Reeves mpcs
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http://www.bedfordbrassquintet.com |
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Treblehorn Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2004 Posts: 336 Location: Chicagoland
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:05 am Post subject: |
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BedfordTrumpeter wrote: | Sounds like someone in the section might be tapped to do a written transposition for the less experienced players anyway. |
I nominate jhatpro!!!!!
I'm not sure how the other folks are going to manage. I'm not the section leader so we'll just have to wait and see what the decisions are. _________________ Alan
Whole buncha brass. Big, small, short, long, coiled and straight. Someday I'll be able to play them. |
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Capt.Kirk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:58 am Post subject: |
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I do not think it is going to matter much. How often do you actually full out the C trumpet? It might be a good excuse to pull the old girl out and take her out on the town a few nights! I mean she has to get tired of sitting at home in the closet waiting to be picked up!
I seriously doubt that a blending issue is going to be a big problem with 15 trumpets players at various levels of skill...What I mean is I am sure that the section is not a perfect blend right now with everyone on Bb's so one C trumpet is not going to stand out that much. I am pretty sure you can make your C blend in well enough! One of the first things we all learn as kids is how to hide in a section if we have not been doing our home work!LOL
So while it would be better to stay on Bb with the rest of the section and would probably help slow the aging process by doing the mental transposition exercise in ones head what fun would that be????? We like to have an excuse to get our specility toys out! It does not matter if we are talking male computer geeks,machinist,trumpet players or "insert trade or hobbie here" we love to show off our specialty tools that we only need once in a great while! _________________ The only easy day was yesterday! |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Gee, thanks, trebleguy! I can barely balance my checkbook, let alone do a written transposition from anything to anything.
I do think you should bring your C horn, however. I want to see if cutting down the slides on a Bb really works. I'll bring the one I made by lengthening the slides on an Eb. Believe me, that took some doing!
As for the sound of our 15-horn section, think of a Peterbilt rally and you've got a good idea. From what I can see we have trumpets and cornets from Schilke, Bach, Besson, Yamaha and Monkey Ward. Blending? Fuggidaboudit. We're damn loud though. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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