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Are all flugelhorns out of tune?


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gigolaw
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though my ear is far from being perfect, the tuner supplements my pitch deficiencies. With that in mind, I can tell you that there are some flugelhorns, as well as trumpets, that are more in tune that others. I had a Yamaha 631 with a flat C under the staff. I have tried other flugelhorns with even flat Gs, F#s and Fs inside the staff. Right now I have a California flugelhorn, not owned by many, so not regularly commented, that only needs a minimal lip adjustment on the low C#. I mean, even when I'm not paying any attention to the intonation, when I'm just wondering if the rehearsal is going to end soon enough, I look at the tuner and it is right in the middle. Better than a Schilke B1 and a Yamaha Xeno that I used to play as my main horns. Even the Wild Thing, my #1 Bb in every list for every category, requires some more third slide adjustment on those low C#s and Ds (the rest of the notes are perfectly in tune, no difference from the California).

So, in short, intonation is greatly related to the quality of your horn.
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jazz_trpt
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lmf wrote:
Are all flugelhorns out of tune?

Nnnnnaaaaaahhhh, just mine!


Asked in a section...answered: Nah, just yours.

I find my intonation on the flugel to be consistent with my intonation on the trumpet. I play a bit sharp, so I need to tune the instrument accordingly and make some adjustments...

Better made instruments (ahem, Flip) tend to have less issues. Or none at all.
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oliver king
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play a Burbank Flugel by Kanstul and agree with Jeff's comment,

"Better made instruments (ahem, Flip) tend to have less issues. Or none at all." I remember hearing/reading that Flip was instrumental in the design of the Burbank Flugel.

and Gigolaw's comment, "... in short, intonation is greatly related to the quality of your horn."

For me, its the best flugel I could have, provided I just relax and play.


Last edited by oliver king on Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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corsair
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found that in both trumpet and flugel, the least amount of physical energy exerted on my part to get the sound and musical energy I want is good because I can play longer and better. My 8310z is that way, so I found a flugel that is also that way. When I don't have to work the notes, then my endurance is better, but the horns are easily manipulated for the jazz sound. The Getzen flugel has no 3rd valve trigger and have noticed no issues with intonation. Either that or I just play everything out of tune the same. No one in the bands have complained. And when I am out of tune, then I get the looks. That's when I am tired and the lip feels it too.
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm having some luck in this venue with the wild thing flugel, even without a great ear for pitch. playing in tune is one issue that can be taken right off the table with this instrument. i give a minimal adjustment in the 3rd slide for low d/c#, about an eighth, but should take the time to check that with a meter. wild thing trumpet pretty much the same deal except the 3rd slide needing about a quarter out on those notes.
from what i can gather from the collective experience here, intonation is only an issue when it becomes an issue and annoys you for the umpteenth time, somewhat similar to blowing up at the spouse after 15 years of squeezing the toothpaste from the front end, otherwise a normal diligence in playing... chuck
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Moshe Mizrachi
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your instrument plays out of tune? I have an even worse problem.
My cornet plays out of rhythm. I've taken it to the shop, but the repair guy can't figure out what's wrong with it.

Moshe Mizrachi
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gigolaw
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moshe Mizrachi wrote:
Your instrument plays out of tune? I have an even worse problem.
My cornet plays out of rhythm. I've taken it to the shop, but the repair guy can't figure out what's wrong with it.

Moshe Mizrachi


That is not the point; you are taking the discussion out of context. The point is that for mortals like the rest of us, not you of course, the quality of the instrument is essential. I'm quite sure that if Arturo Sandoval plays one of those $100 trumpets you see on ebay, he will sound much better than me in my Wild Thing. But why Arturo doesn’t play one of those, maybe because he does not want to be distracted or humiliated by the instrument intonation issues in the middle of a concert, or maybe because he will get a better overall performance from his WT, etc. Even the best players are always in search for the perfect trumpet, one with a good sound, good intonation and, of course, impeccable rhythm.

Again, mortals like me can tell if the note is the right one, but if it is a bit sharp or flat, some times I can’t tell. That’s when the tuner gets into the picture. When I have doubts about my rhythm, if I’m playing the WT I can forget about the intonation and the tuner, then I can give all my attention to the metronome, or to the director, or to the percussion.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gigolaw wrote:
Moshe Mizrachi wrote:
Your instrument plays out of tune? I have an even worse problem.
My cornet plays out of rhythm. I've taken it to the shop, but the repair guy can't figure out what's wrong with it.

Moshe Mizrachi


That is not the point; you are taking the discussion out of context. The point is that for mortals like the rest of us, not you of course, the quality of the instrument is essential. I'm quite sure that if Arturo Sandoval plays one of those $100 trumpets you see on ebay, he will sound much better than me in my Wild Thing. But why Arturo doesn’t play one of those, maybe because he does not want to be distracted or humiliated by the instrument intonation issues in the middle of a concert, or maybe because he will get a better overall performance from his WT, etc. Even the best players are always in search for the perfect trumpet, one with a good sound, good intonation and, of course, impeccable rhythm.

Again, mortals like me can tell if the note is the right one, but if it is a bit sharp or flat, some times I can’t tell. That’s when the tuner gets into the picture. When I have doubts about my rhythm, if I’m playing the WT I can forget about the intonation and the tuner, then I can give all my attention to the metronome, or to the director, or to the percussion.


Gigolaw,

The post was a joke. A self-effacing poke at his own shortcomings, I think.

I know what it's like, too. It may be my own sense of "rhythm" that got me 6 sons! Oh. TMI


Brian
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
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gigolaw
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="shofarguy

Gigolaw,

The post was a joke. A self-effacing poke at his own shortcomings, I think.

I know what it's like, too. It may be my own sense of "rhythm" that got me 6 sons! Oh. TMI


Brian[/quote]

Hey, no problem, I knew it. I was just bored to death.

6 sons? You better spend more time with the trumpet!
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gigolaw wrote:


6 sons? You better spend more time with the trumpet!


So, are you saying that I'm too horney, or that I'm not horny enough??

Brian
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
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BedfordTrumpeter
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expected some intonation struggles on my Jupiter 846RL flugel, which I purchased last year. But I was pleasantly surprised when the horn arrived. Despite its budget price-tag, I find it slots very well. It's on a par with some more expensive horns I've played. Definitely need the trigger in the low register, and I do use some alternate fingerings on the higher end.

Paul
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