• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Short shank Conn cornet m.p.'s


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Cornet/Flügelhorn
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
chapahi
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 1465
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:17 pm    Post subject: Short shank Conn cornet m.p.'s Reply with quote

I have no mouthpiece for a 1929 Conn Victor Cornet and they say modern length cornet m.p.'s aren't optimal for pre 1955 Conn cornets. Can a tech convert a modern shank mouthpiece to fit? Would that work well? What are the pre 1955 Conn cornet players on the TH doing for a mouthpiece? Thanks in advance for any replies....
_________________
Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jadickson
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 1294
Location: Raleigh, NC

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curry just came out with a blank specially designed for old Conns like this. See www.CurryMpc.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
RNJTrumpet
Veteran Member


Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love the Curry TC in my Victor...

Kanstul also has the specs for the early Conn cornets, its a stock backbore - so no waiting, but you have to pick a stock cup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Indian
Veteran Member


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 364
Location: Georgia

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another option is to buy a vintage mouthpiece to fit your vintage horn. Conn and Bach both made short shank mouthpieces for the old Conn cornets. I have bought several off of eBay for $10.00-30.00. All have been in excellent shape and fit the Victor cornet reciever perfectly. One was gold plated, yep the $30.00 one ...
_________________
Rob,
King Liberty SilverTone
King Liberty Super 20
Conn Vocabell 40A - 40B - 80A - 81A - 38A -Victor - 22B - 12B Coprion bell - 16B,
Getzen Tone Balanced Super Deluxe
Holton French LeBlanc - Al Hirt 550
Olds Studio - Special
Besson 10-10
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bob Stevenson
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 1139
Location: Essex, England

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good repair man or even a small engineering firm will be able to turn down a modern mpc to fit the older cornets. Denis Wick mpcs have got steadily bigger since they first appeared in the 1960's (when they fitted older cornet models as well as new ones) in at least four increments as shown in this pix with oldest at left;



Here is a new Denis Wick mpc turned down to fit older cornets;

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
plp
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 7023
Location: South Alabama

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warburton also can make a turned down outer shank that works, in either the BC or standard cornet shanks. The BC isn't that far off as stock.
_________________
Since all other motivesfame, money, power, even honorare thrown out the window the moment I pick up that instrument..... I play because I love doing it, even when the results are disappointing. In short, I do it to do it. Wayne Booth
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address MSN Messenger
chapahi
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 1465
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the great suggestions. My horn, coming from 1929, might even need a shorter short shank according to the Conn Loyalist website. I've got my eye on this one....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220518344093&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

....but I've no idea what #39 means in terms of specs. Does anyone know about this mouthpiece? Thanks again for any replies....
_________________
Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zachary
Regular Member


Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you'll find info on what the "#39" means -- actually, I doubt that's stamped on the mouthpiece. You might want to email the guy, see where he's getting the number from; maybe it's just a number he uses to keep his stock straight?

That said, the piece in the auction you reference should work well with your horn, it has the right look. Any that look like that and say 'CONN-MODEL' or 'CONN-WONDER' will work. Comparing those two, the WONDER has a slightly deeper cup and flatter rim and very slightly wider cup diameter. There are other pieces out there that would work, but I don't have direct experience with them (there was a 'Levy' not too long ago on eBay, I've seen the contoured-rim 'H L Clarke' model a few times, and there's an AI-412 (visible embouchure 'Pechin' model) that was on eBay recently, too.)

I have way too much experience with vintage Conn cornet mouthpieces from when I was hunting down appropriate pieces for my 1892 Conn Wonder (which needs entirely different mouthpieces than you'd need; fun, no?), but as a result of that I can tell you that appropriate vintage pieces do seem to work best with the old Conns.

--Zachary
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
missmybaby
Veteran Member


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 365
Location: North of Detroit

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a Conn 1 on my 1930 80A.
The picture below shows the difference in lettering orientation to quickly identify the correct shank for your horn. You want one like the bottom, if you go with Conn. The Wonder mpc should be fine, too, if you want a cookie-cutter... I have never tried a Wonder, though, so I'm not 100% on that.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/ConnArticle34.html

_________________
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
connicalman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 1668
Location: West Medford, MA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice pics of the old and older Conn mpcs. Worth 1000 words. Its not only the taper, it is the shorter shorts that fit these cornets best. Getting sharp enough to ensure A = 440 is a challenge otherwise.

In the meanwhile, beware. Each mpc will make your New Wonder sing differently. While it has been 100% worth my time to acclimate to the Wick 4 for a small ensemble / church horn sound, one which doesn't drown out a solo voice or a small choir, these old 80A's are chameleons. They will go where you take them. Mpc sensitive, in a good way.

FWIW, the Conn 4 gives an edge to their projection and length to their feel. Last, maybe that #39 is just that seller's stock #.
Enjoy your venture!
_________________
kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
missmybaby
Veteran Member


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 365
Location: North of Detroit

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read somewhere the Conn 4 is very similar to a Bach 10-1/2C. I only mention that because you will see a lot of Conn 4's on ebeigh, so if you don't like the 10-1/2C, you may want to pass on the Conn 4. I've yet to find a reference to what my Conn 1 is equivalent to, but I am used to it now. A Wick or Curry are on my short list to try.
_________________
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
connicalman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 1668
Location: West Medford, MA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Conn 4 may be about the same diameter as the smaller VB, as referenced above. The VB plays much smaller to me than does the Conn. Apologies to missmybaby, who provided the pics of the 2 Conn cornet pieces.

The Wick 4B drops deeper directly off the rim than does the Conn 4, both for the trumpet and cornet mpcs. It is a heavier mpc, esp for the trumpet version, so you get some good bang for your buck in projection.

I got my tpt. & cornet mpcs mixed up by feel. The VB 10.5 & Connie 9B-N are tiny in the tmpt, to me. The VB 10.5 cornet mpc is a MtV, and it feels bigger than its trmpt cousin.
_________________
kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RNJTrumpet
Veteran Member


Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Conn 4, its actually a nice piece - for me it plays similar to a Bach 7 rim (not sure of the cup).

I typically play Bach/Curry 5 rims and I have little problem swittching back and forth. A Bach 10 1/2 C is too small for me. My teacher plays a Bach 6 and he was very comfortable using the Conn 4. Just my experience.

I purchased the Kanstul copy of the Conn shank with a Bach 5C cup, it sounds and plays completely different (and better) than when I use a long shank Bach 5C on my 80A. To me the Kanstul still sounds 'cornetty' even with the c cup. Its nice to have the Conn 4 and B5C though, they produce very different sounds.

I bought the Kanstul copy before I realized Curry made the Conn short shank, if I had known, I would have ordered the Curry 5TC (I'm using the standard shank TC which doesn't fit quite right...but sounds amazing!).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jhatpro
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10202
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim New at mouthpieces@kanstul.com has the specs for a threaded, short-shank bottom which he can make to fit the top of your choice.

The specs are based on a mouthpiece he made for Christine Derksen of The Conn Loyalist who needed the right mouthpiece for one or more of her older Conns.

I chose this approach to help me get the best sound from my 1955 Conn 80A. Works great!
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
gjarrell
Veteran Member


Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Posts: 175
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mouthpiece Express will machine and replate the shank of you mouthpiece, but will need the horn or a leadpipe, for around $20 plus shipping. A Curry TC or Vintage would sound very nice in your horn.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stomvi2000
Regular Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anybody have any idea if the Curry Conn short shank mouthpiece would be any better in a vintage Conn than his VC line of cornet mouthpieces?
thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
RNJTrumpet
Veteran Member


Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stomvi2000 wrote:
Does anybody have any idea if the Curry Conn short shank mouthpiece would be any better in a vintage Conn than his VC line of cornet mouthpieces?
thanks.


My guess is you would buy the VC with the Conn short shank vs his VC standard shank.

I tried my TC standard shank in my 80A and it works great, but it doesn't fit quite right in the receiver. I'm not sure it would play any better with the Conn shank, but it would definitely fit better. The VC shank is shorter than the TC, so maybe that one fits better in the vintage Conn. His website says intonation is better with the Conn shank.

I have the Kanstul Conn shank with a Bach 5C top and it definitely plays better than a standard shank Bach 5C.

Not exactly the answer you are looking for, but I hope the info helps!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lipshurt
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 2641
Location: vista ca

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmmm
not sure what's going on with those wicks, but a short shank conn is bigger around than a long shank conn.

So you would be able to turn a long shank into a short by turning it down. You would have to add material to make it bigger.

The main factor is the insertion length. That is dictated by outer diameter of the shank.
One thing that works pretty well is very simply cutting off a tenth of an inch from a long shank stem. You end up with the right OD, and the right insertion length. It plays pretty well too. And you can do it yourself. with no tools other than thinking. Totally easy.

DOug M
_________________
Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
connicalman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 1668
Location: West Medford, MA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, this old Victor New Wonder had a night to remember yesterday. To stay on topic, the DW 4 (which for some odd reason fits deeper, could be old taper NOS) kept me in tune as a Bb with the 30-odd strings plus 15 winds. Then the new piece arrived. In A. Zip da dee doo dah, one quick change and I was there. But sharp. Aha. Microtuner. Bingo.

The fanfare articulation for me is still a bit less than precise with the 4. It is deep, almost a flugel cup, so I'll sacrifice a 4B to the lathe down to Osmun's, in order to touch all bases. But the warmth of that old Conn, and the ease of range? Mmmmm mmmmm good.

Best of luck to you and yours, gents!
_________________
kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ConnArtist
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 2810
Location: La-la Land (corner of 13th and 13th)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lipshurt wrote:
hmmmm
not sure what's going on with those wicks, but a short shank conn is bigger around than a long shank conn.

So you would be able to turn a long shank into a short by turning it down. You would have to add material to make it bigger.

The main factor is the insertion length. That is dictated by outer diameter of the shank.
One thing that works pretty well is very simply cutting off a tenth of an inch from a long shank stem. You end up with the right OD, and the right insertion length. It plays pretty well too. And you can do it yourself. with no tools other than thinking. Totally easy.

DOug M


Given the number of old Conn horn owners out there... this oughta be made into a sticky!
_________________
"Stomvi" PhrankenPhlugel w/ Blessing copper bell
1958 Conn 18A cornet
1962 Conn 9A cornet (yes, the Unicorn )
Reynolds Onyx cornet
c. 1955? Besson 10-10 trumpet
1939 Martin Imperial Handcraft “Model 37”
1986 Bach Strad 37 ML
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Cornet/Flügelhorn All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group