Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: Puff Your Cheeks Out
Experts always say never puff your cheeks out when you play trumpet.
Jon Hassell has a soft airy sound. That is why he puffs his cheeks out. Most trumpet players want a loud pure sound with a sharp attack.
I saw a PBS show on intelligence and they demonstrated that when a chimp learns to do something and other chimps later watch, they will learn and do the task the exact same way even though there may be other ways to do it.
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7769 Location: Des Moines, IA area
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject:
Quote:
It is time we stop acting like chimps!!!
If we do, this site will certainly close down. 98% of all the threads (except in the Lounge, and you can decide on the percentage there) would be entirely worthless if someone wasn't going to find someone else to copy, ask for blind-faith advice, or do polls for opinions as to what's the best horn/mouthpiece/chops-tongue setting/etc. for ______...
Of course Dizzy who wrote "A Night in Tunisia" puffed his cheeks out. He claimed to have written that song after finding himself "under Miss Apprehension".
Last edited by differencetone on Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Diz didn't always have his cheeks so puffed. if you check earlier videos, you can see he had his cheeks controlled much better.
And his sound was much better, and deteriorated over the years. He lost his compact sound, and clarity. He lost intonation and his clean articulation, and his trademark range diminished as well.
One has to find a balance between compression and resistance. Some use their chops, some use pressure, some us their cheeks and some use their tongue to control air speed.
There are better ways to get a soft "airy" as you call it, sound, if that is desired...
M
Dizzy devotes an entire chapter (albeit the shortest one) about his cheeks puffing in his book "To Be or Not to Bop." Very interesting reading. _________________ Tim Wendt
Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 992 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject:
Almost every trumpet player I've seen has some kind of air pocket, or slight puffing either in the face or the neck when they play.
It seems that the thing we want to avoid is completely disengaging the facial muscles ala the Dizzy look. That can lead to problems. It worked for Dizzy, but there are exceptions to every rule, and who's to say he couldn't have been more efficient if he didn't puff his cheeks that much... _________________ "I'm 73 and I'm still learning." - Maurice Murphy
Almost every trumpet player I've seen has some kind of air pocket, or slight puffing either in the face or the neck when they play. ...
???
kramergfy wrote:
It seems that the thing we want to avoid is completely disengaging the facial muscles ala the Dizzy look. That can lead to problems. It worked for Dizzy, but there are exceptions to every rule, and who's to say he couldn't have been more efficient if he didn't puff his cheeks that much
Like markchuvala said. It did not work for Dizzy. His chops went down the tubes as his cheeks got worse. _________________ Either is fine. My chops always feel great
ObamaCare, a massive government takeover, a measure destroying jobs and the economy, a law designed to enslave the American people, an instrument of tyranny in the hands of criminal elitists.
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:53 am Post subject: Re: Puff Your Cheeks Out
thedevilisbad wrote:
differencetone wrote:
Experts always say never puff your cheeks out when you play trumpet.
What experts?
The ones that know what they are talking about. _________________ Either is fine. My chops always feel great
ObamaCare, a massive government takeover, a measure destroying jobs and the economy, a law designed to enslave the American people, an instrument of tyranny in the hands of criminal elitists.
One time when Dizzy was featured on the old Tonight Show (Johnny Carson era) the cameras had terrific close-ups of his face & cheeks. I had always wondered about his embouchure. The important thing that I saw was his corners never moved - rock solid.
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7769 Location: Des Moines, IA area
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:27 am Post subject:
Quote:
thedevilisbad wrote:
differencetone wrote:
Experts always say never puff your cheeks out when you play trumpet.
What experts?
The ones that know what they are talking about.
(Bold mine.)
I nominate this as one of the Top 10 Best Posts/Answers of All Time for TH! The only thing I would have added was: "and can do it as well as talk about it." That'd probably be redundant, however.
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 3400 Location: Garland, Texas
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:22 am Post subject:
Quote:
I nominate this as one of the Top 10 Best Posts/Answers of All Time for TH!
From a broader perspective, I nominate it for one of the more polarizing posts on the TH. Polarizing, as in a purely dogmatic view from only one side of the issue. Dogmatic, as in stubbornly adhering to insufficiently proven beliefs; inflexible, rigid.
Further, the comments about Dizzy's demise due to cheek puff are completely speculative, and are merely an atttempt to justify the anti-cheek puff polarized viewpoint. The same is true of comments which claim that Dizzy would have been better if he hadn't puffed his cheeks.
What hubris!
If you have never worked with using cheek puff as a means to an end, then you simply have no experience from which to make such dogmatic statements. Then again, dogma has little to do with actual experience.
My sister once told me, "There is no right or wrong, only differing points of view."
Don't know which expert she got it from, or if she made it up.
v.
Libs have such a hard time learning. _________________ Either is fine. My chops always feel great
ObamaCare, a massive government takeover, a measure destroying jobs and the economy, a law designed to enslave the American people, an instrument of tyranny in the hands of criminal elitists.
I nominate this as one of the Top 10 Best Posts/Answers of All Time for TH!
From a broader perspective, I nominate it for one of the more polarizing posts on the TH. Polarizing, as in a purely dogmatic view from only one side of the issue. Dogmatic, as in stubbornly adhering to insufficiently proven beliefs; inflexible, rigid.
Further, the comments about Dizzy's demise due to cheek puff are completely speculative, and are merely an atttempt to justify the anti-cheek puff polarized viewpoint. The same is true of comments which claim that Dizzy would have been better if he hadn't puffed his cheeks.
What hubris!
If you have never worked with using cheek puff as a means to an end, then you simply have no experience from which to make such dogmatic statements. Then again, dogma has little to do with actual experience.
Jeff
Cheek puffers sound like it. Use it for learning if you must but my experience is that it is useless except to save tired chops for a few moments.
Don't just tell me about your expertise. Let me hear someone good who you have taught, who puffs with as clear of a sound as possible, not some 18 year old in a marching band.
Dizzy sounded terrible as he got older and his cheeks puffed more and more. There should be no debate though because you have already crowned yourself the embouchure expert. _________________ Either is fine. My chops always feel great
ObamaCare, a massive government takeover, a measure destroying jobs and the economy, a law designed to enslave the American people, an instrument of tyranny in the hands of criminal elitists.
Don't just tell me about your expertise. Let me hear someone good who you have taught, who puffs with as clear of a sound as possible, not some 18 year old in a marching band.
Dizzy sounded terrible as he got older and his cheeks puffed more and more. There should be no debate though because you have already crowned yourself the embouchure expert.
It isn't about playing as clearly as possible for everyone. I know you and 99% will argue with what I am about to say but the greatest living trumpet player in the world puffs his cheeks. He is not the most clear or the most loud trumpet player.
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