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Puff Your Cheeks Out


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differencetone
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:08 pm    Post subject: Puff Your Cheeks Out Reply with quote

Experts always say never puff your cheeks out when you play trumpet.

Jon Hassell has a soft airy sound. That is why he puffs his cheeks out. Most trumpet players want a loud pure sound with a sharp attack.

I saw a PBS show on intelligence and they demonstrated that when a chimp learns to do something and other chimps later watch, they will learn and do the task the exact same way even though there may be other ways to do it.

It is time we stop acting like chimps!!!
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craigtrumpet
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It is time we stop acting like chimps!!!
If we do, this site will certainly close down. 98% of all the threads (except in the Lounge, and you can decide on the percentage there) would be entirely worthless if someone wasn't going to find someone else to copy, ask for blind-faith advice, or do polls for opinions as to what's the best horn/mouthpiece/chops-tongue setting/etc. for ______...

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differencetone
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course Dizzy who wrote "A Night in Tunisia" puffed his cheeks out. He claimed to have written that song after finding himself "under Miss Apprehension".

Last edited by differencetone on Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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oxleyk
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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thedevilisbad
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Puff Your Cheeks Out Reply with quote

differencetone wrote:
Experts always say never puff your cheeks out when you play trumpet.


What experts?
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markchuvala
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diz didn't always have his cheeks so puffed. if you check earlier videos, you can see he had his cheeks controlled much better.

And his sound was much better, and deteriorated over the years. He lost his compact sound, and clarity. He lost intonation and his clean articulation, and his trademark range diminished as well.

One has to find a balance between compression and resistance. Some use their chops, some use pressure, some us their cheeks and some use their tongue to control air speed.

There are better ways to get a soft "airy" as you call it, sound, if that is desired...
M
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dizzy devotes an entire chapter (albeit the shortest one) about his cheeks puffing in his book "To Be or Not to Bop." Very interesting reading.
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kramergfy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost every trumpet player I've seen has some kind of air pocket, or slight puffing either in the face or the neck when they play.

It seems that the thing we want to avoid is completely disengaging the facial muscles ala the Dizzy look. That can lead to problems. It worked for Dizzy, but there are exceptions to every rule, and who's to say he couldn't have been more efficient if he didn't puff his cheeks that much...
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Brian Moon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kramergfy wrote:
Almost every trumpet player I've seen has some kind of air pocket, or slight puffing either in the face or the neck when they play. ...


???

kramergfy wrote:
It seems that the thing we want to avoid is completely disengaging the facial muscles ala the Dizzy look. That can lead to problems. It worked for Dizzy, but there are exceptions to every rule, and who's to say he couldn't have been more efficient if he didn't puff his cheeks that much


Like markchuvala said. It did not work for Dizzy. His chops went down the tubes as his cheeks got worse.
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Brian Moon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:53 am    Post subject: Re: Puff Your Cheeks Out Reply with quote

thedevilisbad wrote:
differencetone wrote:
Experts always say never puff your cheeks out when you play trumpet.


What experts?


The ones that know what they are talking about.
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craigtrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One time when Dizzy was featured on the old Tonight Show (Johnny Carson era) the cameras had terrific close-ups of his face & cheeks. I had always wondered about his embouchure. The important thing that I saw was his corners never moved - rock solid.

He also greatly admired frogs (3:40)


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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
thedevilisbad wrote:
differencetone wrote:
Experts always say never puff your cheeks out when you play trumpet.


What experts?


The ones that know what they are talking about.
(Bold mine.)

I nominate this as one of the Top 10 Best Posts/Answers of All Time for TH! The only thing I would have added was: "and can do it as well as talk about it." That'd probably be redundant, however.
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trumpetteacher1
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I nominate this as one of the Top 10 Best Posts/Answers of All Time for TH!


From a broader perspective, I nominate it for one of the more polarizing posts on the TH. Polarizing, as in a purely dogmatic view from only one side of the issue. Dogmatic, as in stubbornly adhering to insufficiently proven beliefs; inflexible, rigid.

Further, the comments about Dizzy's demise due to cheek puff are completely speculative, and are merely an atttempt to justify the anti-cheek puff polarized viewpoint. The same is true of comments which claim that Dizzy would have been better if he hadn't puffed his cheeks.

What hubris!

If you have never worked with using cheek puff as a means to an end, then you simply have no experience from which to make such dogmatic statements. Then again, dogma has little to do with actual experience.

Jeff
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veery715
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My sister once told me, "There is no right or wrong, only differing points of view."

Don't know which expert she got it from, or if she made it up.

v.
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Brian Moon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veery715 wrote:
My sister once told me, "There is no right or wrong, only differing points of view."

Don't know which expert she got it from, or if she made it up.

v.


Libs have such a hard time learning.
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Brian Moon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpetteacher1 wrote:
Quote:
I nominate this as one of the Top 10 Best Posts/Answers of All Time for TH!


From a broader perspective, I nominate it for one of the more polarizing posts on the TH. Polarizing, as in a purely dogmatic view from only one side of the issue. Dogmatic, as in stubbornly adhering to insufficiently proven beliefs; inflexible, rigid.

Further, the comments about Dizzy's demise due to cheek puff are completely speculative, and are merely an atttempt to justify the anti-cheek puff polarized viewpoint. The same is true of comments which claim that Dizzy would have been better if he hadn't puffed his cheeks.

What hubris!

If you have never worked with using cheek puff as a means to an end, then you simply have no experience from which to make such dogmatic statements. Then again, dogma has little to do with actual experience.

Jeff


Cheek puffers sound like it. Use it for learning if you must but my experience is that it is useless except to save tired chops for a few moments.

Don't just tell me about your expertise. Let me hear someone good who you have taught, who puffs with as clear of a sound as possible, not some 18 year old in a marching band.

Dizzy sounded terrible as he got older and his cheeks puffed more and more. There should be no debate though because you have already crowned yourself the embouchure expert.
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area51recording
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never mind Dizzy's puffed cheeks......what's his TONGUE doing?
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differencetone
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian Moon wrote:

Don't just tell me about your expertise. Let me hear someone good who you have taught, who puffs with as clear of a sound as possible, not some 18 year old in a marching band.

Dizzy sounded terrible as he got older and his cheeks puffed more and more. There should be no debate though because you have already crowned yourself the embouchure expert.


It isn't about playing as clearly as possible for everyone. I know you and 99% will argue with what I am about to say but the greatest living trumpet player in the world puffs his cheeks. He is not the most clear or the most loud trumpet player.


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