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E_Hi_Screamer15
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 Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:16 am Post subject: Walt Johnson's "Double High C in Ten Minutes" |
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| Walt Johnson published a method book titled "Double High C in Ten Minutes" *A New approach to playing the High Register Trumpet* . Has anyone used this book? If so what did you think of it and would you recommend it? |
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The Kraken
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Walt Johnson's "Double High C in Ten Minutes" |
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| E_Hi_Screamer15 wrote: | | Walt Johnson published a method book titled "Double High C in Ten Minutes" *A New approach to playing the High Register Trumpet* . Has anyone used this book? If so what did you think of it and would you recommend it? |
I never seen this book, however from the little I have learned, an I mean alittle, in ten minutes seems impossible.
Then again I could be wrong, won't be the 1st time.
It would be interestomg if this where true, then everybody would be doing it and the next peek would be quadruple high C's in 20 minutes.
Sorry could not contribute usefull info on this book!
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Pete Anderson
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| I always thought that book was a joke... |
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cb3
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:13 am Post subject: ok |
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| Lots of info. about it in the Search section. |
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silverhorn
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| I actually really liked the book. It's very concise and to the point, but the techniques worked for me and the exercises in it are very good. |
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The Kraken
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| silverhorn wrote: | | I actually really liked the book. It's very concise and to the point, but the techniques worked for me and the exercises in it are very good. |
So you reached Double High C in 10 Minutes?
Or is it 10 Minute Excersies to reach Double High C?
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tomba51
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: |
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I have the book, but I haven't looked at it in years. But if I remember correctly, he teaches you an embouchure that allows you to play higher than normal (a "rolled-in" setting if I remember correctly). So yes, you can significantly improve your range in ten minutes, by using this new setting. Once you have this "feel" for the high register, the rest of the book is devoted to learning how to develop the high register with your "normal" setting. I'm sure that someone will correct me if I have not explained it correctly. As I said, I haven't looked at the book in years.
Tom
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silverhorn
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| The Kraken wrote: | | silverhorn wrote: | | I actually really liked the book. It's very concise and to the point, but the techniques worked for me and the exercises in it are very good. |
So you reached Double High C in 10 Minutes?
Or is it 10 Minute Excersies to reach Double High C? |
actually, you can reach a double high C in about 10 seconds with the technique. the exercises just help you gain more accuracy and a feel for the notes in the altissimo range with your new high gear setting. I actually don't do high gear/low gear strictly according to his book, but have combined my embouchure into one setting by incorporating some additional teachings from TCE, BE, Lynch, Gordon, etc. |
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Pete
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:16 am Post subject: |
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Check out Nick Drozdoff on YouTube. He has some great videos on there, and he explains Walt Johnson's technique in one of them.
Pete |
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trumpet1256
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: Double C in ten minutes? |
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Come on guys! is that real? How about double C in 10 years! I developed my range playing along with Maynard. After being self taught for 25 years, I studied with a great teacher that introduced me to compression, technique, tone, endurance and not to leave out, range. Once a foundation is developed, you can build upon that. 
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garrett901
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome Jon... Foundation. True words.
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silverhorn
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:01 am Post subject: Re: Double C in ten minutes? |
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| trumpet1256 wrote: | Come on guys! is that real? How about double C in 10 years! I developed my range playing along with Maynard. After being self taught for 25 years, I studied with a great teacher that introduced me to compression, technique, tone, endurance and not to leave out, range. Once a foundation is developed, you can build upon that.
Jon A.
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Marcinkiewicz Shew 1.25
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Yes, it is real. Real enough for some monster players like Walt Johnson and Nick Drozdoff and others to have success with this technique. I don't think anybody is endorsing using this method alone to replace having a great foundation in trumpet playing that includes private lessons with a good teacher and focus on tone, technique, years of practice and all the other things you've mentioned. Certainly, none of us are saying that this is all you need to become a great player or that it will work for everyone. I personally try to study as many different methods as possible and take elements from each teaching method and use what works for me so I have studied various methods from the standards like Arbans, Clarke's Technical Studies and Colin's Advanced Lip Flexibilities, to the more unconventional methods like TCE/MSC, BE, Claude Gordon's Systematic Approach, Louis Maggio, John Lynch, etc. I can't speak for anybody else but all I can say is that for me, using a modified TCE/MSC/BE/Walt Johnson/etc. technique has made me a better player even though many mainstream critics will still look down on those methods as being gimmicky or a quick fix because they are unconventional (most such critics have never even tried any of the methods that they so strongly oppose but have an automatic prejudice against any non-traditional methods of teaching). In summary, all I can claim is that I personally like Walt Johnson's book alot and it has helped me in my trumpet playing. |
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groovinhigher
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Double C in ten minutes? |
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| silverhorn wrote: |
Yes, it is real. Real enough for some monster players like Walt Johnson and Nick Drozdoff and others to have success with this technique. I don't think anybody is endorsing using this method alone to replace having a great foundation in trumpet playing that includes private lessons with a good teacher and focus on tone, technique, years of practice and all the other things you've mentioned. Certainly, none of us are saying that this is all you need to become a great player or that it will work for everyone. I personally try to study as many different methods as possible and take elements from each teaching method and use what works for me so I have studied various methods from the standards like Arbans, Clarke's Technical Studies and Colin's Advanced Lip Flexibilities, to the more unconventional methods like TCE/MSC, BE, Claude Gordon's Systematic Approach, Louis Maggio, John Lynch, etc. I can't speak for anybody else but all I can say is that for me, using a modified TCE/MSC/BE/Walt Johnson/etc. technique has made me a better player even though many mainstream critics will still look down on those methods as being gimmicky or a quick fix because they are unconventional (most such critics have never even tried any of the methods that they so strongly oppose but have an automatic prejudice against any non-traditional methods of teaching). In summary, all I can claim is that I personally like Walt Johnson's book alot and it has helped me in my trumpet playing. |
Amen to that Silverhorn!
Incorporating in their proper place various things over the years can help any player, whether we all share the same goals or approaches, it is all about what works for you and more than the exercises in Walt's book is a simple technique that he employs, he calls it shifting gears, where around E above high C he starts to slide the bottom lip up and under the top, eventually playing almost on the white. I took lessons with Walt back in the 70's and we are still friends and it is just one more thing that while possibly not for everyone, for a lot of people can be helpful or one more technique to employ, if it works for you.
Personally, I like it and use it along with some of my own takes on TCE, tongue techniques, etc, and just good old fashioned time on the horn.
As a fan of Walt's and having had the opportunity to play with him several times, he is an amazing player and a super cool cat too. He has had a very interesting life and played some of the coolest gigs ever and still does his own projects and goes out with Frank Sinatra, Jr, etc...
He also makes some of the greatest fiberglass instrument cases on the planet, www.johnsoncases.com
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silverhorn
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Double C in ten minutes? |
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| groovinhigher wrote: |
I took lessons with Walt back in the 70's and we are still friends and it is just one more thing that while possibly not for everyone, for a lot of people can be helpful or one more technique to employ, if it works for you.
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That is great that you got to take lessons directly from Walt! If you still keep in contact with him, tell him that I love his book too! lol  |
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tipo mastr
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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I might as well share my experience in the matter. I never worked out of his book, but I used some of his concepts.
About a year and a half ago, I actually developed a "high gear" setting on my own. I didn't actually know it was a Walt Johnson concept until I saw one of Nick Drozduff's videos on youtube. This worked really well for me, because I had NEVER been able to play above a high C in a performance at the before (I had just turned 16 at the time). This new high gear setting actually influenced and IMPROVED my normal setting through an osmosis type of deal. 
There is a BIG "however" though...the problem I've found with this high gear/low gear system is that I needed to use an uncomfortable setting to use high gear. I basically had to tuck my bottom lip under my top. I lacked flexibility, control, and tone, but i had some good high notes. I played for about a year and a half with this high gear/low gear thing, and eventually got good at making the high gear sound "legit". However, it didn't help the fact that it still felt unnatural. At the same time, I was trying to develop my skills on my "low gear", which was working pretty well up to an Eb, but no further.
For what it's worth, I came to this high gear/low gear system by lip buzzing. I felt that my lip buzz was more relaxed than my playing of the trumpet. So, I did some experiments where i would lip buzz a pitch, put the mouthpiece on my lips, and then see what comes out. I started out with a low C. After experimenting with some other pitches I tried buzzing as high as I could and then putting the trumpet on my lips. It came out as an F on the top of the staff, but when I tried to play higher with that set I was immediately able to get some easy squeaks up to high F. After repeating this process over several days to get the "feel", it worked fairly well.
However, I'm in a different place right now. Since then I began working with Claude Gordon's method, and I essentially threw the high gear/low gear setting away. However, my range without "high gear" did NOT improve in the 8 months I worked out of Claude's method. (of course, every other aspect of playing did, but not high notes).
However, recently I saw a clinic by Al vizzutti on youtube that talked about airspeed in high notes. I then repeated the previous experiment, but instead of lip buzzing as high as i could, i blew the fastest air I could. What resulted was a VERY similar sounding squeal up to high F, but WITHOUT a different embouchure (lip) setting. I haven't fully developed this yet, but my high F sounds better EVERY day, and I'm working towards higher notes.
If you want my opinion, I think that when people use a bottom lip "tuck" or "curl", they're really just trying to increase their air speed. However, I think it's very possible to learn how to use a faster air speed without having to contort your lips every which way =P
(and for those who would be tempted to get drawn into an air speed argument, just replace the word air speed with lip compression/groundless physics/what have you  )
i kid, i kid
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fnchdrms87
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| why do users on this site list their equipment that they use under their signature? It really perplexes me. |
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Jon Arnold
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| It took me 33 years to play a double C. |
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John Mohan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Double C in ten minutes? |
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| silverhorn wrote: | | I have studied various methods from the standards like Arbans, Clarke's Technical Studies and Colin's Advanced Lip Flexibilities, to the more unconventional methods like TCE/MSC, BE, Claude Gordon's Systematic Approach, Louis Maggio, John Lynch, etc. |
Claude Gordon's "Systematic Approach", does not fall into an "unconventional" method in my opinion. Used as its instructions and assignments direct, the player will be doing a very well organised daily routine that includes range-building arpeggio type exercises going way down and going way up, and a well-rounded collection of exercise material from the most well-known standard trumpet method books, including Clarke's "Technical Studies for the Cornet", Walter Smith's "Lip Flexibility on the Cornet or Trumpet", Saint-Jacome's "Grand Method for Trumpet or Cornet", Charles Colin's "Lip Flexibilities for Trumpet", Arban's Celebrated Method, and Clarke's "Characteristic Studies for the Cornet". The only thing "unconventional" about Claude's "Systematic Approach" is the fact that it is such a well organised, systematic method.
Of course, the way the typical high-note-wanna-be player uses it, just doing the exercises in the book, and ignoring the core of material assgned from other books, than one could say it is unconventional. And wasted.
Sincerely,
John Mohan |
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silverhorn
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Double C in ten minutes? |
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| John Mohan wrote: | | silverhorn wrote: | | I have studied various methods from the standards like Arbans, Clarke's Technical Studies and Colin's Advanced Lip Flexibilities, to the more unconventional methods like TCE/MSC, BE, Claude Gordon's Systematic Approach, Louis Maggio, John Lynch, etc. |
Claude Gordon's "Systematic Approach", does not fall into an "unconventional" method in my opinion. Used as its instructions and assignments direct, the player will be doing a very well organised daily routine that includes range-building arpeggio type exercises going way down and going way up, and a well-rounded collection of exercise material from the most well-known standard trumpet method books, including Clarke's "Technical Studies for the Cornet", Walter Smith's "Lip Flexibility on the Cornet or Trumpet", Saint-Jacome's "Grand Method for Trumpet or Cornet", Charles Colin's "Lip Flexibilities for Trumpet", Arban's Celebrated Method, and Clarke's "Characteristic Studies for the Cornet". The only thing "unconventional" about Claude's "Systematic Approach" is the fact that it is such a well organised, systematic method.
Of course, the way the typical high-note-wanna-be player uses it, just doing the exercises in the book, and ignoring the core of material assgned from other books, than one could say it is unconventional. And wasted.
Sincerely,
John Mohan |
I agree with what you said. I was debating on whether to include Claude Gordon's "Systemic Approach" as conventional since it incorporates many of the standard teaching texts. The only reason I listed it as "unconventional" was that while I was learning trumpet early on, most of my mentors never really used his method as part of their teachings (even though most knew about him and his great reputation) and not alot of music schools and conservatories that I was aware of while growing up used his method on a regular basis. Much of that may have changed recently as I believe his method is very effective when practiced properly as you said, and I also believe that many of the other unconventional methods today that I listed may someday gain wider mainstream acceptance as more people realize the benefits that can be gained by many when done properly. |
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gospeljohn
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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great cd with a killer ballad!
The book is very clear,short and to the point.Going to enjoy getting the hang of this.
Can anyone list any other cd,s of this type?Great playalong practice.
gospelj. |
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