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Flip Oakes Extreme Flugelhorn mouthpiece series


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bassguy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GuidoCorona wrote:
Hi BassGuy, why not concentrate on your targeted Curry 7Fl from the get go, and so gradually develop your long term embouchure and range directly on it?

G.


Hi Guido. OK I am definitely going to have to revisit this issue. I made a bit of a breakthrough last week, but subsequently I am only fairly good for the first 10 minutes or so. Then the upper register dies, & soon after the middle register gets weird, with noted cracking into brashy octaves) & notes gratuitously slot to the lower harmonic. When that happens I feel my embouchure collapsing as the buffer zone between my lips & upper incisors collapses. (I try to play with minimal pressure)

The issue is that maybe I can get back my strength & endurance by jyst using a target mouthpiece, but I think using a mouthiece thst I'm not struggling with, something just a bit closer to a trumpet mpc, & then go up in size would help. ZMaybe an 8.5 or 10.5 FLM would prove less fatiguing. Also the FLs sound beautiful but if you crescendo of accent notes you don't get much increase in brightness. I fully understand Richard IIIs logic behind making his best all purpose mouthpiece a FLM. (So far his aural assessments have resonated with me).

For that reason I had seriously planned on trying both the 10.5s @ 15.9mm & 8.5 @ 16.23mm in the shallower FLM. I had already sent away for 8.5 & 10.5 FL from ME, but the FLMs are out of stock in Large taper.

So today my order from ME came, presumably with what I ordered (10.5 FL & 8.5 FL) & the order was half right as I got a
10 FL Y, not 10.5 FL Y. (The invoice shows what I ordered: was 10.5 FL)


So here is the deal! The 8.5 is only about 3 tenths of a millimeter smaller than the 7 & I liked the 8.5, so I think my "target" mouthpieces should be both the 8.5 FLM ( generic all purposes) and 8.5 FL (extra smokey).It occurred to me that just one smaller (maybe 10 FLM) practice mpc would suffice. But not this ,10 FL. I got by mistake. Too small & too deep.

So now this cluster f___k presents me with financial issues. I could've kept the 10.5 as a practice mpc, if I got what i ordered, but I didn't. I can return the 10 FL-Y requesting thst it's cost is not credited to my PayPal, but simply replaced later with a 8.5 FLM. I'll have my pair of mouthpueces. (I can worry about a practice mouthpiece later). If half that $124 I spent on the order is refunded I'll owe two $62 bills, & won't be able to pay them off in 6 months no interest. I am really strapped, & might have to send the whole order back if my terms aren't met.Waiting for a response.


Last edited by bassguy on Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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GuidoCorona
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bassguy, I appreciate the sutuation.... And that is why I was recommending that you stick to the 7 rim at this time, and you build your chops on it for a spell.... Without too much safaring around.

I am only a "babe in the woods" when it comes to playing brass, but the lip muscle is no different from any other striate muscle that we have... It takes an inordinate amount of time to build endurance and strength.... Think of how long an athlete practices to develop their top performance.... Whether it is high jump, swim, sprinting or long distance running... It is long months and years of practice to build or rebuild top performance.... Not a matter of mere days.

So, our muscle to be built-up is the labial one.... Why should it be any more miraculous than the other ones?

Besides, my excellent TH and Audiogon friend DCStep from Denver told me years ago that early obsession with the high range is futile...... Work very gradually on the lower and mid range.... Build my labial strength, and muscular/cavity behavior of all that's behind it... And very gradually the higher range will come in... And forcing the issue just creaates problems instead of resolving them.

Ah yes... 'Tis also less expensive that way *Grins!*

Saluti, Guido
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also the good news is that flugelhorn requires much less strength. It is a technique driven instrument.
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bassguy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GuidoCorona wrote:
Hi Bassguy, I appreciate the sutuation.... And that is why I was recommending that you stick to the 7 rim at this time, and you build your chops on it for a spell.... Without too much safaring around.

I am only a "babe in the woods" when it comes to playing brass, but the lip muscle is no different from any other striate muscle that we have... It takes an inordinate amount of time to build endurance and strength.... Think of how long an athlete practices to develop their top performance.... Whether it is high jump, swim, sprinting or long distance running... It is long months and years of practice to build or rebuild top performance.... Not a matter of mere days.

So, our muscle to be built-up is the labial one.... Why should it be any more miraculous than the other ones?

Besides, my excellent TH and Audiogon friend DCStep from Denver told me years ago that early obsession with the high range is futile...... Work very gradually on the lower and mid range.... Build my labial strength, and muscular/cavity behavior of all that's behind it... And very gradually the higher range will come in... And forcing the issue just creaates problems instead of resolving them.

Ah yes... 'Tis also less expensive that way *Grins!*

Saluti, Guido


Thanks for your input, & I will take it to heart. I do want to remind you of a phenomenon called muscle memory that should come into play regarding both skill & strength. In my case I am relearning an old skill. In the case of dtrength muscle memory also comes into play. For instance, a bodybuilder with maximum genetic potential can put on no more than 10 lbs of muscle per year. However, once that muscle mass slowly put on atrophies, it can be put back on very quickly

A famous example: Arnold Schwarzenegger losing 25 to do the movie "Stay Hungary" with Sally Field, then later putting all thst muscle back in 2 months to compete in the '75 Mr. OlymOla while filming 'Pumping iron'. There is a lesser known but far more dramatic case. In the mid 70s Casey Viator (who won the '71 Mr America age 19) lost the tip of his little finger in an oil rig accident & nearly died from a tetanus injection allegeic reaction. After a month he had wasted away to 143 lbs. but gained back a staggering amount in 30 days. It was called the 'Colorado experiment' & was supervised by Arthur Jones, the inventor of the Nautilus Machine.

I have been counting on muscle memory I'm terms of both skill & strength to get back into shape. Relearning a skill, getting back ones stength & endurance is much easier than first attaining it.As I stated before, I started at 10 1/2 & was playing pretty well by age 13. (Mostly self taught on cornet). If I can restore that level of proficiency I can make much better use of my skill. Maybe I am counting too much on muscle memory. (Edit: today playing & sounding much better on that 7 FL, so you seem to be right about this. Not much reason to go smaller. Good reason to complement the 7 FL with a 7FlM to sometimes go brighter & higher when I should). I am enthusiastic enough about my playing today to put-up with the Curry 7 FL & probably the 7 FLM & Shut up. Thanx


Last edited by bassguy on Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bassguy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Also the good news is that flugelhorn requires much less strength. It is a technique driven instrument.


I can't really discern really how much facial strength is needed to play any brass instrument. Much of it might be making efficient use of one's strength, which is simply skill.

You said you have to tune your Flugelhorn differently for the DW4FL? Because the DW is so short? No intonation issues that require small adjustments of the 1st & 2cnd valve slides? What flugelhorn do you use?


Another observation. I'm now finding that my tone with the Curry mouthpiece is getting a little brighter & beamy as I get back into shape. Now when i use the DW 4FL the inner rim feels less constraining & apparently the wider throat doesn't seem to constrict the air flow as much as the Curry I know you've stated that you find that the feel of the inner rim feels similar for both the Curry 7 & DW 4 (not quite for me) but do you find the Wicks' wider throat makes for less air resistance? I find the DW 4FL slots better in some registers, but not others. I now AM going to have to consider going with the Curry 7 FL & FLM, & the DW4FL & 4BFL. 4 mouthpieces! Obviously while getting my chops back my skill & strength level & perceptions change from day to day. In my case finding an optimal mpc can take longer than any trial period.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bassguy wrote:
Richard III wrote:
Also the good news is that flugelhorn requires much less strength. It is a technique driven instrument.


I can't really discern really how much facial strength is needed to play any brass instrument. Much of it might be making efficient use of one's strength, which is simply skill.

You said you have to tune your Flugelhorn differently for the DW4FL? Because the DW is so short? No intonation issues that require small adjustments of the 1st & 2cnd valve slides? What flugelhorn do you use?


Another observation. I'm now finding that my tone with the Curry mouthpiece is getting a little brighter & beamy as I get back into shape. Now when i use the DW 4FL the inner rim feels less constraining & apparently the wider throat doesn't seem to constrict the air flow as much as the Curry I know you've stated that you find that the feel of the inner rim feels similar for both the Curry 7 & DW 4 (not quite for me) but do you find the Wicks' wider throat makes for less air resistance? I find the DW 4FL slots better in some registers, but not others. I now AM going to have to consider going with the Curry 7 FL & FLM, & the DW4FL & 4BFL. 4 mouthpieces! Obviously while getting my chops back my skill & strength level & perceptions change from day to day. In my case finding an optimal mpc can take longer than any trial period.


I play an Adams F1 flugel and the Wick 4FL makes it flat.

The reason I feel the flugel is easier is that much less air is needed. It feel like just a delicate touch is needed. Less air means less air to resist blowing the chops apart. Hence it feels easier to me.

Larger throats slot better for me and yes, have less resistance.
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bassguy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Richard III"]
bassguy wrote:
Richard III wrote:
Also the good news is that flugelhorn requires much less strength. It is a technique driven instrument.



I play an Adams F1 flugel and the Wick 4FL makes it flat.

The reason I feel the flugel is easier is that much less air is needed. It feel like just a delicate touch is needed. Less air means less air to resist blowing the chops apart. Hence it feels easier to me.

Larger throats slot better for me and yes, have less resistance.


Well Richard IIII, have you tried the DW 4BFL yet? If so what do you think? I ask because you seem to have a plethora of 16.5mm mouthpieces that give you varying timbres of flugelhorn sounds. The 4BFL might have something to offer. While on the subject are there any FH mouthpieces that have rims similar to those Curry 7s, but are shallower than the FLM & can give a sound that's a bit "ttrumpety"

Both the DW 4 FL & the Curry 7 FL exceed my expectations in terms of darkness, with the Wicks being nice, but a bit dry & dull. I had planned on sending back the Wick, probsbly keeping the Curry 7 FL, but using the 7 FLM as my main mpc if I is as good as I anticipate.

[Important!] I have noticed that both those mouthpieces look worn where they insert into the lead pipe. I had assumed it was a bit of crud to be cleaned off, but it doesn't clean. Does that mean it's scratched & not resellable? Given how I carefully inserted it & took it out I'm surprised at what looks like wear. Am I stuck with that gold DW 4FL because it's worn if it doesn't clean? I need to decide to send the Wicks back to the eBay vendor or keep it.. I have not tried any metal or jewelry cleaner yet. Should I or is it ,worn
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well Richard IIII, have you tried the DW 4BFL yet? If so what do you think? I ask because you seem to have a plethora of 16.5mm mouthpieces that give you varying timbres of flugelhorn sounds. The 4BFL might have something to offer. While on the subject are there any FH mouthpieces that have rims similar to those Curry 7s, but are shallower than the FLM & can give a sound that's a bit "ttrumpety"

Both the DW 4 FL & the Curry 7 FL exceed my expectations in terms of darkness, with the Wicks being nice, but a bit dry & dull. I had planned on sending back the Wick, probsbly keeping the Curry 7 FL, but using the 7 FLM as my main mpc if I is as good as I anticipate.

[Important!] I have noticed that both those mouthpieces look worn where they insert into the lead pipe. I had assumed it was a bit of crud to be cleaned off, but it doesn't clean. Does that mean it's scratched & not resellable? Given how I carefully inserted it & took it out I'm surprised at what looks like wear. Am I stuck with that gold DW 4FL because it's worn if it doesn't clean? I need to decide to send the Wicks back to the eBay vendor or keep it.. I have not tried any metal or jewelry cleaner yet. Should I or is it ,worn


I have not tried the Wick BFL and probably won't. I'm happy with my Currys. The only mouthpieces I have or used to have in the range of the Curry FLM are a Giardinelli that is very similar and a Marcinkiewicz CG Personal flugel mouthpiece. The Marcinkiewicz has a nice richness and lightness to the tone that is slightly different than the Curry.

I am not sure what happened with your trial mouthpieces, but it kind of sounds like they are yours now. Certainly good enough, though for sale as few people care about that part of the mouthpiece.
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GuidoCorona
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi BassGuy, I ran a test on my Kanstul 1525 with my shallowish flugel pieces. Using the pinky insertion method, from medium deep to shalloest, they are:

* Curry 5Fl-M:
* Stork 2Fl-S
* GR 66-FL

Results are outwardly surprising, and underscore that cup depth is by no means an absolute predictor of tone brilliance.... While the Stork is shallower than the Curry, and the GR is shallower than the Stork, the Curry Fl-M seems to deliver the most open/brilliant sound of the trio.

In order for me to obtain a tone that is markedly more brilliant than the Curry FL-M, I had to use a very shallow cornet piece: either a Stork Vacchiano 2D, or the even shallower Vacchiano 2E.

The 1525 having a Bach taper, using these Stork cornet pieces on it did not seem to yield obvious insertion or intonation problems. However, behavior on your Hawk with large taper might not be as good.

I wonder if Phyllis Stork might be willing to create custom flugel pieces with D or E Vacchiano cups... Without resulting in any intonation anomalies.

Regards, Guido
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bassguy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GuidoCorona wrote:
Hi BassGuy, I ran a test on my Kanstul 1525 with my shallowish flugel pieces. Using the pinky insertion method, from medium deep to shalloest, they are:

* Curry 5Fl-M:
* Stork 2Fl-S
* GR 66-FL

Results are outwardly surprising, and underscore that cup depth is by no means an absolute predictor of tone brilliance.... While the Stork is shallower than the Curry, and the GR is shallower than the Stork, the Curry Fl-M seems to deliver the most open/brilliant sound of the trio.

In order for me to obtain a tone that is markedly more brilliant than the Curry FL-M, I had to use a very shallow cornet piece: either a Stork Vacchiano 2D, or the even shallower Vacchiano 2E.

The 1525 having a Bach taper, using these Stork cornet pieces on it did not seem to yield obvious insertion or intonation problems. However, behavior on your Hawk with large taper might not be as good.

I wonder if Phyllis Stork might be willing to create custom flugel pieces with D or E Vacchiano cups... Without resulting in any intonation anomalies.

Regards, Guido

I just sent for a Conn 7 FLC with the hope that I can get a somewhat "trumpety sound" only 23 bucks. That saidd, it might seem incongruous given that I claim to be turned off by the instrument's tendency to be bright, a "trumpety" flugelhorn sound isn't actually a trumpet. Also, I want to play with a Harmon style straight mute--if I can find one. The Conn might be a good practice mpc as well.

Your assessment of the Curry FL-M is a bit different from Richard IIIs who described it as a Chameleon that's dark when played softly, then brightens up. My FL's sound I teally love, but it does remain pretty dark (not generic--like Freddie Hubbard's Flugelhorn sound) eIven when noted are accented. I anticipate that the FL-M will be more generic & dynamic sounding, hope my perception isn't quite "brilliant. We'll see.
t
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GuidoCorona
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bassguy, do keep us posted about yoour upcoming Olds MP.... May be you will experience nirvanic flugel tone before long.

G.
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bassguy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GuidoCorona wrote:
Hi Bassguy, do keep us posted about yoour upcoming Olds MP.... May be you will experience nirvanic flugel tone before long.

G.


I picked up the Conn 7CFL at my guitarist's automotive smog/electrical shop & played it, along with my other mouthpieces. (Curry 7FL & DW 4FL). He noticed that even though the Wicks was fatter & richer than the 7FL, it also had an obvious presence about it. We both liked the Curry better, but I dont want to relinquish the fatness of the Wicks. Ironically I put the Wicks in my pants pocket with a hole in it, & it fell cup rim first on the concrete floor. It now has a tiny nick on the outer portion of the rim. Now looks like I wont need to give up the fat deep sound. I can't send it back, but I like it. Maybe someday I'll be able to handle it up to high C with ease, or at least Bb. Starting in the octave below high C, that mouthpiece slots easily (C-E-G-E-C; B-D#-F#-D#-B, etc) but the octave below doesn't slot well--too many airballs.

The Conn mouthpiece is sufficiently shallow (my guess, less than .6") & sufficiently bright for a flugelhorn mpc. My first impression is that it wasnt that much easier to play (slotting/range) but hopefully tommorow it will play more easily. So my game plan is to start practicing consistantly about one hour per day on the Conn 7FLC (almost exclusively) until the Curry & 7FL-M comes in about a month. I hope that 7FL-M is a bit brighter than the Curry 7FL, but I also want it to be noticebly darker than the Conn FLC. Your description of that FL-M mouthpiece as "brilliant" makes me a bit apprehensive.

BTW Guido, I went back to peek at that thread about the Wicks depth. I am now using my tablet at a Starbucks& I could go back & clean up that thread, but that thread was pretty much finished when Richard III estmated the depth of his Wicks. As a consumer I just needed to know if the Wicks was substantially deeper than the Curry. (Exact specs not necessary, but nice). Manufacturers market pretty shallow mouthpieces & call them deep. I should never find myself attacked for making that kind of inquiry. That troll from the Netherlands has hounded me from day one when I posted a thread inquiring about the advantages and/or disadvantages of bore size. (I knew nothing about flugelhorn bore size options until a phone call with Flip Oakes, in which he adamantly stated that a .460 bore flugelhorn isnt a flugelhorn. I had to make an informed decision before buying, so I made the inquiry.

Ther really seemed to be a strong bias towards the traditional french flugelhorn proportions & thats OK, but the pros & cons should distill to two parameters: How does the bore size translate to sound & ease of playing. With many they defended their bias the way a religious person might defend their religiou/political views. NOTHING to back it up. That guy Delano mocked me for even making the inquiry. Noi real input on his behalf: Unacceptable! Others were actually rational and said that large bore flugelhorns can sound trunbonish & blow more freely. Acceptable. A substantial argument. in my case I mused that my light sound was my achilles heel & I couldnt possibly sound trombonish. A compensatory move going with a .460 bore flugelhorm. my guitarist is excited about it. (The gent from England very nice, but condescending. I wasnt a bad trumpet player back in my day, & I have some grasp of what I need to do.)

Your link to iPads not viable. My phone is a life line phone as I am destitute & awaiting a long SSI process I will probably lose. Gigging's my only income & I have very little energy for that.
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delano
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Bassguy, what do you mean by "troll". People call me blunt or hardheaded but troll?

Second, I said it before, you are very often guilty of selective reading.
To go to your post above:

That troll from the Netherlands has hounded me from day one when I posted a thread inquiring about the advantages and/or disadvantages of bore size. (I knew nothing about flugelhorn bore size options until a phone call with Flip Oakes, in which he adamantly stated that a .460 bore flugelhorn isnt a flugelhorn. I had to make an informed decision before buying, so I made the inquiry.

But I posted almost a year ago to you:

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 10:18 am
To answer the OP: yes there is a lot wrong with 0.460 bore flugels.
It's a cheap way to build a flugel on a trumpet machine and that's it.
For the trumpetplayer who occasionaly has to play flugel it's OK. It's not a real flugel but who in the public knows that and cares?


In fact I really risked my neck with a post like this because all the usual suspects were ready to finish me off, but I DID post it.
And now you are calling me a troll who made fun of your inquiry?
Please indicate why the words of Flip Oakes are new to you and where his conclusion about large bore flugels differs from mine.
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GuidoCorona
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bassguy, Curry FL-M will not make your flugel sound like a trumpet.... It will still sound like an unmistakable flugel with all its conical uniqueness, although Fl-M does sound to me more brilliant -- Note I prefer not to use the term "bright" -- than Curry Fl.... still it does In a darkling flugelsome way, that is *Grins!*

May I recommend that you carry around your mouthpieces in some kind of protective pouch? I use empty pharmacy tablet vials... Cotton wadding at the bottom, and thin urethane packing foam to pad the inner cylindrical perimeter... Your mouthpieces will thank you for the protection if they ever drop again.

Not sure what you meant in your reference to iPad links. Does your phone/tablet run Android? Which version?

Regards, G.
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bassguy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GuidoCorona wrote:
Hi Bassguy, Curry FL-M will not make your flugel sound like a trumpet.... It will still sound like an unmistakable flugel with all its conical uniqueness, although Fl-M does sound to me more brilliant -- Note I prefer not to use the term "bright" -- than Curry Fl.... still it does In a darkling flugelsome way, that is *Grins!*

May I recommend that you carry around your mouthpieces in some kind of protective pouch? I use empty pharmacy tablet vials... Cotton wadding at the bottom, and thin urethane packing foam to pad the inner cylindrical perimeter... Your mouthpieces will thank you for the protection if they ever drop again.

Not sure what you meant in your reference to iPad links. Does your phone/tablet run Android? Which version?

Regards, G.


Who knows, maybe it was Trumpet MD who gave me that link. I complained that I have to use a magnifying glass & reading glasses to see this forum & use it. That was after I had planned on inserting replies to someone's post, & my quotes got mixed up with his. (My thread inquiring about the depth of DW mpc.)
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GuidoCorona
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bassguy..... THat link was probably from me.

The bottomline is that if you are using an Android phone or tablet, you can magnify text, and even get the device to speak screen content in an intelligent way.... In most Android devices you will find those settings in Settings/accessibility.

G.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting about the Conn flugelhorn mouthpiece. I have a Conn 7 cornet mouthpiece that I have compared to a Wick 4. The Conn seems as deep with a more comfortable rim and a little more color to the sound.
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bassguy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
Mr. Bassguy, what do you mean by "troll". People call me blunt or hardheaded but troll?

Second, I said it before, you are very often guilty of selective reading.
To go to your post above:

That troll from the Netherlands has hounded me from day one when I posted a thread inquiring about the advantages and/or disadvantages of bore size. (I knew nothing about flugelhorn bore size options until a phone call with Flip Oakes, in which he adamantly stated that a .460 bore flugelhorn isnt a flugelhorn. I had to make an informed decision before buying, so I made the inquiry.

But I posted almost a year ago to you:

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 10:18 am
To answer the OP: yes there is a lot wrong with 0.460 bore flugels.
It's a cheap way to build a flugel on a trumpet machine and that's it.
For the trumpetplayer who occasionaly has to play flugel it's OK. It's not a real flugel but who in the public knows that and cares?


In fact I really risked my neck with a post like this because all the usual suspects were ready to finish me off, but I DID post it.
And now you are calling me a troll who made fun of your inquiry?
Please indicate why the words of Flip Oakes are new to you and where his conclusion about large bore flugels differs from mine.


Delano there are people in these forums who thrive on creating friction. As a consumer I made a legitimate inquiry about products out there that claim to have a deep V-cup but don't specify how much. (Some are pretty shallow actually). From some flugelhornists such as Richard III & Guido i got gooda anecdotal advice that guided me in finding several useful mouthpieces thst I like.

Your response was that I should quit worrying about the silly measurements & start playing. (Words to that effect). That was unconstructive & contentious, beyond dismissive, rude, & the gist of your message is that differences in mouthpiece specs are irrelevant & so is "Bassguy" for inquiring. I guess in your world we all should play the stock mpc thst came with the instrument as all this doesn't matter. That's what your Snyder remark distills too.

You should never attack an OP for making an inquiry such as mine, and that is what you did!. You worked out your equipment issues long ago & now instead of constructively presenting your opinions based on your experiences & observations (or better still ignoring them) you went on the attack mode because somehow I should know better for asking. You did that to me in both threads.
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bassguy
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Joined: 25 May 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Interesting about the Conn flugelhorn mouthpiece. I have a Conn 7 cornet mouthpiece that I have compared to a Wick 4. The Conn seems as deep with a more comfortable rim and a little more color to the sound.


Min is a CFL.
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bassguy
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Joined: 25 May 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
Mr. Bassguy, what do you mean by "troll". People call me blunt or hardheaded but troll?

Please indicate why the words of Flip Oakes are new to you and where his conclusion about large bore flugels differs from mine.


Right there Delano. By challenging me to have to explain how Flip Oakes words were new to me you are either putting my honesty or sincerity in question, or you are telling me that I was being way to naive & have no business making the inquiry in this forum. That's trolling. And I have to point out that prior to elaborating on your objection to .460 bores, you were being rude. Every forum has people such as you. In TMF it's a German guy named Kurnawald. In his case he practically runs the forum single handedly, so there is no one to put a muzzle in him..

To answer your question only this time, my background was such that in the 70s there were no discussions of flugelhorn bores in my limited circle. Generally Clark Terry fans first checked out Martins. Doc Severenson fans first considered Getzen Eternas, Maynard Furgeson fans first considered MF Horns, & others considered Cuesnons because they were dirt cheap. I got a good deal on the Getzen Eterna & bought it. However I NEVER played it because of tbe interminable drudgery of doing etudes on my trumpet. No internet, no way of knowing about bores starting as low as .401" except in catalogues. Of course, no teacher or vendor brought these issues to light, other than telling me that my trumpet should be my priority, NOT a flugelhorn.


After years of not playing I came across YouTube videos of Art Farmer, Steve Swallow & Jim Hall playing for BBC educational shows. (I once asked Swallow for bass lessons, but I wasn't a bass major at Berklee) Inspired by Farmer's economicsl approaache (he doesn't double & triple tongue a zillion notes per second like Clark Terry) those videos inspired me to consider taking up the flugelhorn again. Ironically locally, after first calling Oakes he told me that Farmer's Besson had been willed to him & that it had been a bit of a model for his Wild Thing.

In a more recent phone call conversation I told him how I even found the Getzen 3895 stuffy. He acknowledged that I could find a smaller bore Getzen stuffy, but added that if I combined that Getzen 3895 with one of his mouthpieces, I would have probably perceived the 3895s back pressure as insignificant & would have appreciated if more. Actuslly, something along those lines would have been enlightening in my thread last year--rather being berated for my naivety. But my present .460 bore FH seems to suit me just fine--& at 1/10 the price?


Last edited by bassguy on Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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