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Roger Ingram Model Jupiter XO Trumpet 1600I


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houdini1313
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is the classical side of things on this horn? I would consider getting one, but still need some legit characteristics on the horn I play. Thanks!
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jonalan
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

houdini1313 wrote:
How is the classical side of things on this horn? I would consider getting one, but still need some legit characteristics on the horn I play. Thanks!
The 1600i is a great jazz/commercial horn. For me, it is too bright for legit (i.e., chamber, concert band, etc.). Give it a shot, though. It may work for you with the right mouthpiece.
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J_Mase
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

houdini1313 wrote:
How is the classical side of things on this horn? I would consider getting one, but still need some legit characteristics on the horn I play. Thanks!


But you own two Xenos. Does every horn have to be an "all-purpose" horn with people?
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gbdeamer
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J_Mase wrote:
houdini1313 wrote:
How is the classical side of things on this horn? I would consider getting one, but still need some legit characteristics on the horn I play. Thanks!


But you own two Xenos. Does every horn have to be an "all-purpose" horn with people?


Many people only keep (or can only afford) one Bb at a time, so they hope to find something versitile enough for all of their playing situations.
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altamira_28
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got mine yesterday. Another "blemish" model. The CASE was still in the cellophane. If this thing was ever played, I'M Chuck Norris. I got a steal on it, so it's all good.

I played it a bit last night, but I got more insight on it today letting a buddy of mine play it. The setup out of the box was D-tuning slide, and none of the extras. I want to see how the core horn performs and be comfortable with it before I start messing around with the different options.

The first thing I noticed almost immediately was the slotting. It seems like the slotting is so good, that you have to try and miss a partial. (almost, but you get the point).

The second thing I noticed was the big sound this horn produces. Now, let me clarify what I consider to be a big sound. A big sound is produced when it fills a dead room. Notice I didn't say dark. This horn isn't what I'd consider to be dark. I did notice, not having played a horn with a rounded tuning slide before, that the rounded slide does darken up the sound a bit. I didn't know what to expect out of it, so that was a bit of a surprise for me.

The next thing was the valve action. WOW. Smooth, quiet, responsive, and really solid, much like the horn itself. Which brings me to...

The 4th thing I stumbled upon was the dynamic contrast this horn is capable of. It seems like you can get the most miniscule amount of volume, as well as filling any hall imaginable. The quiet side is just as easy to play as the loud side. As I said, I let a buddy of mine (a better lead player than myself, by far) play it, and he was impressed. He normally plays on a Yammie 6335 heavy wall Bb with a Najoom leadpipe. Needless to say, it's a big blow without being a L bore. He can get more volume out of his Yammie, but not by much, and he REALLY doesn't need it.

Apologies for the long post, but I thought I'd put my 2 cents worth thus far. We're just married, so I'm still giving it some time before I really say this is it for me. So far, so good. (Boy, if I was talking about an actual marriage, that'd be a pretty crappy thing to say, wouldn't it?)

Josh
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trumpet1256
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:32 pm    Post subject: Jupiter 1600I XO trumpet Reply with quote

I have owned mine for 2 months now and it just gets better and better! I have to agree that the slotting is so good you feel like it's too easy to play and not make a mistake. Personally, I use the exact same set up as Roger Ingram. I too have played on the Yamaha 6310Z, 8310Z and Schilke S42. The set up is this; regular bottom caps, regular finger buttons, metal valve guides, regular valve springs and the Nodal Inserts for upper register slotting. The metal valve guides create more core and some resistence for the upper register. the Nodal Inserts aid in balancing out the air flow to smooth as silk! Intonation is spot on and my tuning slide is out 3/4".

Jon A.

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altamira_28
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK... it's post-honeymoon time. I know it's past that time because the <angels singing> period has passed, and some of the flaws emerge. Relax, they're minor, and some indicative of a new horn. I might cover old ground, but I gathered some insights since the last post, so bare with me...

1) The horn feels solid. Not like a Z horn (I like the Z horns, so stay off me). The Z horns feel to me to be very tender and light. This horn feels like you're holding a solid brass instrument in your hand, but not a chunk of lead.

2) The valves are ALSO very solid. I believe someone made the "silky" observation. However, when I got mine, it felt like 90W gear oil had been poured on them. Sticky, yet not sticking. I assumed that to be something to preserve the horn in shipping from Taiwan. I wiped the valves down, oiled them, and promptly began to test the horn. I had no problems the first couple of days (with subsequent oilings; I use Blue Juice), but developed sticking with the valves after that. I proceeded to thoroughly clean the horn inside and out, and have yet to have a problem. Even since the first oiling, they felt solid, again, not like ANY Yamaha I've played. I play a Yamaha 6445 HS C, and love it, but the valves on every Yammie I've played are kinda klunky. You can feel the springs go "sproioioioing" against the valve guides. Not in the Jupiter.

3) About the slides: The action out the box was wonderful. It's responded well to Selmer "pink panther snot" and a drop of valve oil after teh initial cleaning. The travel on the d / c# is almost nonexistent. Just a bit of first on the 1st ledger line A.

I've found that I can blend in well with my concert band with the heavy valve caps on. I also use the XO nodes to help the slotting a bit. The rounded tuning slide gives me more of a dark sound, which works great with the heavy valve caps for the BQ. I see no reason why the rounded tuning slide wouldn't give the average player the ability to use this horn for most "legit" settings. I've yet to try to put the brass valve guides in, as I'm afraid to jinx the valves. Maybe a bit later.

I realize that these settings are purely subjective, and that there are a LOT of other alternatives. Bottom line, this horn is a keeper.

Oh, and don't get a dent in the second valve slide. They cost about $250.

Josh
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altamira_28
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

houdini1313 wrote:
How is the classical side of things on this horn? I would consider getting one, but still need some legit characteristics on the horn I play. Thanks!


Depends on what you require out of a legit horn. If you aren't looking to sell one, than keep what you got . This horn'll give you some "legit" characteristics if you don't mind setting it up that way. The optional parts (listed previously in this post) can be utilized to customize the horn for a lot of different playing situations. I believe it can emulate every horn but a Monet. (sp?)

Josh
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:49 pm    Post subject: Ehhh... Reply with quote

houdini1313 wrote:
How is the classical side of things on this horn? I would consider getting one, but still need some legit characteristics on the horn I play. Thanks!



I think it's more the perception of sound which counts rather the taper of the bell or bore size of the horn. Just think about the approach Bill Adam for trumpet playing.
If the Jupiter 1600i can match with your playing abilities I am sure you will get an excellent instrument. If not it will remain an instrument of torture, no matter what kind of music you play with it.
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altamira_28
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Ehhh... Reply with quote

Manuel de los Campos wrote:
houdini1313 wrote:
How is the classical side of things on this horn? I would consider getting one, but still need some legit characteristics on the horn I play. Thanks!



I think it's more the perception of sound which counts rather the taper of the bell or bore size of the horn. Just think about the approach Bill Adam for trumpet playing.
If the Jupiter 1600i can match with your playing abilities I am sure you will get an excellent instrument. If not it will remain an instrument of torture, no matter what kind of music you play with it.


That actually kinda sums it up. I've gravitated toward this type of horn for awhile. Any of the attributes I gave as to how this horn acts is purely specific to me / other players that happen to play like I do. I'd say if you're happy with the horns you have, but need a good lead horn, based on the horns I see you have, this probably wouldn't be the one for you. I get a naturally dark sound, anyway, so even if I'm playing split lead with our current lead player, I can just match his sound with this horn. He's playing an air hog, I'm playing on the trumpet equivalent of the Tesla car. Purely subjective.

Good catch, Manuel

Josh
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GenoValet
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RogerIngram wrote:
. . .

One more point: after decades of playing many step-bore (or dual bore) horns, ie the Yamaha 636B and the S42 conversion, I decided I wanted to go one step further with regard to developing a horn with what I consider the perfect leadpipe-bore-bell balance. . . .

I hope this answers your questions, and by all means, let me know if there is any more information you need.

All the best,
Roger


Can you tell us some more detailed info about the "leadpipe-bore-bell balance?" For example, what size is the lp inlet? what taper is the bell? and what was your thought process playability-wise in those spec choices? Thank you,
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falado
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got mine about a month ago from Trent Austin. So far I like mine, great horn. I had been playing a Lawler TL and a V Raptor. The 1600I seems more efficient and I like my lead sound better on the 1600I than the Raptor. I tried the Jupiter in a concert band, Pfeiffer University, setting 2 weeks ago. I was using my Lawler in concert band because it sounds darker to me. When I mentioned this to the conductor, the euphonium player behind me said he liked the sound of the Jupiter better. He said the sound was rounder and my articulations were much cleaner. sometimes you need some ears on the other side of the bell. I'm going to try recording both horns, same mouthpiece, and compare the sounds. I originally got the Jupiter to play rock and big band gigs and it's working great in that setting. The other trumpet player in the rock gig is using a Schilke S42. I tried his horn and still like the Jupiter better. Maybe it can be an all-round horn. For legit I use a different mouthpiece and the way I think the sound through the horn.
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John Mock
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone--please--send me a pm or email with where you are finding the "blemished" ones, because I have not and that would be the only way I can even think of getting one of these right now, but I would like to get one.

Thanks--

johndmock@yahoo.com
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ejweiss
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="John Mock"]Someone--please--send me a pm or email with where you are finding the "blemished" ones, because I have not and that would be the only way I can even think of getting one of these right now, but I would like to get one.

Me three!
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Mark Bradley
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give the folks at Dillons a call. They are selling them for quite bit less than what's advertised on their web site (and they're not blems).
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Brassgurus
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

$1300.00 1600IS Brand new at our store.

Eric Hand
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4335 El Camino Real
Palo Alto, Ca. 94306
650-948-5000 x722
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seconded on the Dillon recommendation. Their price was lower than any I could find quoted elsewhere, including this thread. You need to remember that online "Advertised prices" have the same restrictions as in print ads. They will pretty much always give you a much better price over the phone. Never order straight off the website.

And it was pristine, no blemishes or whatever.

The only thing "wrong" I could find with mine was when I first got it there was a strange "ticking" noise in the first valve on the upstroke. I thought maybe it was the valve guides, so I switched out to the brass ones instead, same thing was happening. I took the top caps off, and looked at them closely as well, couldn't see anything amiss. So I decided to swap the 1st and 2nd valve top caps around and put it back together. Ticking noise went away. I still don't know what was causing it, but the valves are very nice and quiet now. Some mysteries don't have to be understood to be solved.
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John Mock
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. If I spend $1250 right now, my wife would kill me.

I have to find one of the blems that people have gotten for $860 or less.

Then I might risk, and survive, the punishment.

Thanks again for the info.

John
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CalicchioMan
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:40 am    Post subject: Roger Ingram Model Jupiter XO Trumpet 1600I Reply with quote

I had a chance to finally try one last night. I was pretty impressed! It is a nicely balanced horn and very easy to play in all registers!
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TrentAustin
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a ton coming into my shop in the next week or two and will match any price you find.

The Ingram is a marvelous trumpet.

Best,
T
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