Roger Ingram Model Jupiter XO Trumpet 1600I

ejweiss · Veteran Member Joined: 15 May 2009 Posts: 297 Location: WI

That is awesome! I will be looking forward to it!

BobD · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:56 am Post subject:

What's the deal with the lacquered ones? The Jupiter website shows it with nickel slides and what looks like a red brass leadpipe but I never see that setup on sale.
_________________
Adams/ACB collaborative
Yamaha Shew Jazz and Bach 7C

PatchesTheCat · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:53 pm Post subject:

Well, that's simple.

It features nickle slides and a rose brass leadpipe. That's the only way it does come. Then either with a lacquer coating on top or silver plate.

Found these pics of the lacquer ones somebody posted... this is exactly what you'll get.
http://picasaweb.google.com/108630301140235096754/Jupiter1600I#

Regards,
Matt
Unpaid Jupiter Salesman

PatchesTheCat · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:34 pm Post subject:

In other I opted to pick up one of these horns to evaluate it long term using my tax return from uncle sam. I purchased from Chuck Levins for a good price and specifically went to them because of how good they treated me back during the Roger Ingram Clinic in October or November. Lee Walkowich, Jim White, and Todd Milam were all class acts. Of course, Roger too. I didn't have my Schilke B6L with me for evaluation side by side so I did want to do this at some point. But I did remember that I liked the way the 1600i played very much particularly in some of its slotting characteristics.

In any regards I did receive the horn this week and I ordered it in silver plate for durability purposes and to protect the brass underneath. That being said I do adhere to Renold Schilke's philosophy on the superiority of plating to lacquer. Probably doesn't make a ton of a difference nowadays but that's another discussion. I do love the look of the lacquer ones though with the nickel and brass mixed.

I will be evaluating it long term for playability so I won't comment on it quite yet until I've had more than minimally a month. What I can say is that I have given it an evaluation on build quality. And I am very impressed. Fit and finish are excellent. All slides are tight and quick to move. The valve alignment is better than my old yamaha 6310z, bach, and even the schilke. So I was quite shocked to see this.

The other thing that I really like is the second valve slide is actually a reversed slide with a 'male' and 'female' end instead of two 'male' ends like most manufacturers. It would seem this should lend to good airflow maybe in a minor or even undetectable way but I do enjoy the thought and innovation put into it. Another feature that I appreciate is something seen on Calicchios- a stop screw for the 1st valve slide.

The valves can be commented on just as others have, smooth and silky. Certainly better than any Yamaha (the valves are what I consider to be Yamaha's worst feature) and is comparable to the schilke on smoothness. They are stainless steel. I've never had any experience with these and don't know how they go long term but I can't imagine anything being wrong with stainless steel as a choice.

The horn has a nice heft to it. Not too light, not overly heavy. Good medium weight in my opinion. It came with many other options - weighted caps, extra slide, springs, etc. Haven't fiddled with them. I tend to not like rounded slides because of slotting problems and I remember trying it in the store and not liking it, at least with my lead piece in.

So far, so good. I feel that Jupiter has made quite the improvement in production quality since the days of past. Jim White had mentioned this when I talked to him saying they completely retooled the plant a little while back and hired some experts to assist with various aspects. I can't seem to find any build flaws so far. At a price around $1000 under it's chief competitors in the commercial horn market, I feel it can easily win over some people and it seems it has by reading this thread.

I had toyed with the idea of getting a S42 Dr. Valve conversion for some time but could never come to grips with the near $4000 price tag. I was happy to hear the rumors Roger was working to produce a horn I was very excited to see what came of it. I initially was concerned when I heard it was a Jupiter because of old Jupiters I had seen. Now I would look forward for anyone to work with the company if this is what they are turning out. I hope they can continue this. If so, the future is very bright for them.

Enough for now. More on playing after I evaluate it more.

Hope this helps anybody curious on quality aspects.

Regards,
Matt

GenoValet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 1244

erd402 · New Member Joined: 01 Nov 2010 Posts: 10

Crazy Finn · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:08 pm Post subject:

RandyTX · Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject:

2-5-1 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Posts: 1381

Where you guy's finding these blemish deals??
_________________
www.mikesailorsmusic.com

GenoValet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 1244

TrentAustin · Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:41 am Post subject:

I think the price is lower due to the fact that the bulk of the trumpet world still considers Jupiter to be a "student" brand. I can tell you that I am supremely impressed by the quality of all of the Taiwanese makers lately. They really have upped their game lately.

The horn's price is like the Carols. I think Carol trumpets are easily $400-600 underpriced for what they are. In order for them to gain exposure into the US market and create brand loyalty I think it's a wise idea to sell at their current price point. I doubt they stay there for too long once the US public especially realizes the quality product they make. Is it a Shires or an Adams? I do not think so... but I choose to stock these horns over other horns due to my belief in the product. I think these are the best horns in that particular price range for sure. I am trying to carry the best products in three tiers of prices at my shop. The Ingram fits that niche perfectly.

In terms of stocking the Ingram as a smaller shop I can't afford yet to stock 10-20 of any one horn at one time. So that means I usually get an Ingram in stock and sell it within 48 hours due to a waiting list I have from my store. Now that I know the product is rock solid I am going to buy many more for inventory. Honestly most of this current batch I ordered is sold.

Best,
T
_________________
http://austincustombrass.biz
http://trentaustinmusic.com
http://instagram.com/austincustombrass
This acct will be deactivated as of March 2021. email info@austincustombass.com

altamira_28 · Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:31 pm Post subject:

Update:

Just got back from our band's tour in Florida. The horn held up great! We have some powerhouse trumpeters in our section, and even with my personal endurance issues, the horn pulled me through with chops to spare. I didn't have to blow my brains out to be heard in the audience; the horn's projection took care of it for me.

I can't wait to let this baby loose on the streets of Seoul!

Josh

PS... glad to see so many people are catching the buzz for this horn. Great work, Roger! And thank you for a great instrument! You and your co-developers / Jupiter have a lot to be proud of.
_________________
XO Brass 1600I
XO Brass 1602LTR
XO Brass 1646 Flugelhorn
XO Brass Tribune 1622 C Trumpet
Jupiter Tribune 1220 Bb Cornet
Jupiter 1700S
Monette B3S3, C3S3, B4LS1, B4LSS1, B4LVS1, BP6, Bob Reeves 43WF, Denis Wick 3B Heavy Top Cornet

PatchesTheCat · Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:18 pm Post subject:

I've now been playing on the 1600I for about a month now. I thought I would share a few thoughts on the horn.

Fit/Finish: Still after a month the fit and finish on the horn are still good. I haven't uncovered any issues on it.

Valves: I researched into Stainless Steel Valves and there seems to be a fair amount of people in support of them and actually consider them to be superior. Nevertheless they are still fast and could only imagine them better if the horn was flushed and re-oiled with Ultra Pure Oil which I consider the best on the market.

Scale/Intonation: Very even, very defined slots throughout. I still liked the slotting partials above high C. It was very in tune throughout but I will say players unknowingly probably compensate easily for minor intonation issues.

Sound: Loved the way it sounded. Played gorgeously with a deep mouthpiece and lit up with a shallow mouthpiece but still retained more "core" sound than my schilke likely due to the increased weight of the 1600I. I think the sound from this horn is probably one of the most versatile sounds out there as it could easily be adapted to play a number of different styles effectively just with a mouthpiece switch.

Blow: I ended up not liking the way it blew. I liked the horn when I tried it at Chuck Levins as I was on a trip and was borrowing a ML bore bach trumpet. I found the 1600I hands above the Bach and I seemed to instantly like it. However, in my current residence, I use a Schilke B6L. I stopped playing the Schilke for the entire month so I could appropriately adjust to the 1600I. I found it stuffy though the first week and overly resistant to blow against. I opted to play for over a week just softly so my body could make adjustments. I initially lost part of my upper range but gained it back by the end of testing. I found I was fighting the overall blow too much by the end of the test. Don't get me wrong I did like some of the resistance however, I also felt that horn used more air (which adds to my perceived resistance) than my schilke. I decided to compare tubing sizes between it and the schilke. Despite the 1600I being called a medium bore (usually a designation of the valve block) the tubing on the horn was much bigger and swallowed the corresponding B6's tubing easily. To me this explained why I felt like my air wasn't lasting as long. I think it took my air the way ML or L bore horns did but the initial resistance provided by the medium valve block was useful in upper register access (this is my theoretical idea). I had headaches trying to play some of the exercises that normally gave me no problems in the past. I can be honest in saying I have always had lung issues which is why smaller bore horns appeal to me but the 1600I just didn't cut the bill in my case for efficiency of air use. It does obviously work for others though. When I switched back to my Schilke at the end of the month I found that the headaches that were plaguing me went away by the second day back on it. My upper register also strengthened up a bit.

Results: Jupiter has expertly assembled an amazingly versatile trumpet that has multiple uses in the industry in my opinion. It's sound is absolutely gorgeous and has even slotting from the very lows to the extreme highs. It gives a wall of resistance many players will find appealing in accessing the upper register. I however did not find it to be as efficient in air use as my Schilke B6L which is a deal breaker for me. I actually think this horn can be quite appealing for the ML bore trumpet player looking to get a horn with more commercial zing but enough lyrical capability to do almost any job.

So in the end, I had a great time on the horn but it isn't the best horn for me. My current Schilke still remains the best match up for all the characteristics of my body and playing. I'm sure many people will be taken with this horn. Alas mine though, will now be heading for the auction/sale block and I will look forward to testing other horns in the future in the medium bore commercial market.

I hope this helps anybody looking into these quality horns. Feel free to ask any questions or PM me if you're looking for a jupiter 1600I for yourself

.

Best Regards,

Matt

jonalan · Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:21 pm Post subject:

Matt, did you try both tuning slides? The rounded slide has considerably less resistance than the square and has a perfect blow for me.
_________________
Stomvi VRII Bb
Kanstul 1525 Flugel
GR pieces

PatchesTheCat · Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I did try both slides. The rounded one changed some slotting characteristics of the horn and did make it a bit more free blowing but one of things I learned from playing the Schilke S32 (which I hated) is that once adapted to smaller efficient bores, that jumping to larger bore horns, the increase in size alone albeit larger can cause a perceived increased resistance to where logically it should feel like it has less. My B6L has a step bore approach and is pretty easy blowing. I'm not an expert in all the things that go into whether a person likes a horn or not but it just wasn't for me. Nothing wrong with it, it had many attributes that I loved, I just seem to take to step bore designs that are rather on the small side. The last horn I had, liked and sold was a 6310Z (hated the valves), so the B6L made a perfect transition (step bore, great valves).

It's all good. I'll probably put it on ebay and hopefully someone will get a nice deal on a one month old horn. I'm glad I did the testing as it really solidified my appreciation for my current setup. Jupiter did put together a really nice package though.

Regards,
Matt

GenoValet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 1244

jonalan · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:05 am Post subject:

GenoValet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 1244

Ron M. Davis · Regular Member Joined: 20 Dec 2004 Posts: 49

Matt--Have you played the Sch S42?

Patches · Regular Member Joined: 23 Apr 2011 Posts: 39

So my account was apparently terminated by Trumpetherald for some reason after I updated my account info. I dropped 2 emails to no avail so I've created another account until this gets resolved. So if anyone here knows someone in charge, I could use some help on this.

Anyways, to address the question: