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Roger Ingram Model Jupiter XO Trumpet 1600I


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Jon Arnold
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The demo horn I tried, (I believe) was one of two demo horns in existence. My local rep had the horn for only one day (Thursday) and had to ship it out to New York on Friday. Jupiter had a clinic at Miami Universitry (Ohio) on Tuesday. This is the reason why the horn was in the area. My rep brought it while I was teaching jazz band at my school and I got to play it with my band. We were rehearsing "What Is Hip" by Tower of Power, so I got to rip and wail on it. I was surprised and shocked it played so well. I did not expect it at all.
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jonalan
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon, was the demo laquered or silver?
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mafields627
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interfx wrote:
Any ATL stores have a demo one down this way...

I've never played a 0.453" horn before, and wondering how restrictive it would play...


If you make it to Birmingham or Montgomery, Art's Music carries Jupiters. I don't know if they have the new horn in stock though.
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Jon Arnold
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it was silver
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ws tpt
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:57 pm    Post subject: Roger Ingram;s 1600i Reply with quote

During a lesson with Roger Ingram on Fat Tues Feb 16, I had about 20-30 minutes of playing time on Roger’s newly designed trumpet, the 1600i XO trumpet built by Jupiter. Five years ago, I purchased a Phaeton trumpet (designed by Wayne Tanabe before his move to Yamaha Artists Services); a Jupiter 1000 series became my backup trumpet with the arrival of my Phaeton. Last May, I snagged one of the last Kanstul Destino 3* trumpets. With its arrival, I recently sold my Jupiter. I always liked my Jupiter’s valves and its reponse. After playing Roger’s horn, it is definitely on my short list to purchase.

Before buying my Phaeton, I owned a Yamaha 6310Z-really liked the horn, but not the valves. I also own a King Liberty (medium bore) customized by Jerome Callet and restored by Pettifor’s. I have played medium bore Bach’s, including a Mt. Vernon medium bore, 8310Z, Schilke B6, and a friend’s Callet Sima. The 1600i does not feel tight or stuffy-if one did not know it to be a M bore, it feels very similar to most ML trumpets.The I horn is not a lightweight, it felt like a standard XO or regular weight Bach in my hands. I did not find it to be mpc sensitive as some have wondered. My regular piece is a Callet 3S (about a Bach 5-6), I also played it with a Kelly 7C, my Bobby Shew Lead mpc, Bach 101/2C and a Jettone Merian model. All worked fine for me with no apparent gap issues or slotting. While it was easy for me to get a more commercial lead sound with the I horn, I really feel it is versatile enough that I could use it for most, if not all, of my regular playing. Roger also had one of the new Jupiter pro-line flugels with him. What a gorgeous horn! Beautiful gold lacquer finish that looked more like gold-plate, nicely engraved bell-don’t know all the specs but it too looks to be very nice.
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Yammie
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:34 am    Post subject: We'll see Reply with quote

I'll let you know my impressions - I pre-ordered one in lacquer from Washington Music Center a few months ago, and my enabler Lee Walkowich just called me end of last week to say it's on its way (wringing hands, cackling wildly).

Now I'll just sit by the window, waiting for Santa in the brown truck...

I'm a pathological horn slut, by my own admission. But the price point of this horn coupled with my preference for horns like the 8310Z and S42 makes this an intriguing new model. I hope Roger is getting a taste of sales!
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jazzothman
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the latest price from Dillon Music the new 1600i pricing: lacquer $1245 and silver $1295. They have the silver horn in stock. Btw any advice between the silver and the lacquer?
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cb3
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:12 pm    Post subject: ok Reply with quote

So it's only a $50 premium for silver vs. lacquer? Wonder what a gold plated one would be and why do other manufacturers charge so much more for plating? This line of trumpet pricing is amazing to me. I found a site over seas that sells these horns for far less even than we have to pay in the U.S. Not sure if they have this particular model but they have the XO pro line so I'm sure this one will be there soon. Now I don't know anything about how much it would cost to ship it here but maybe for some, it's worth a look. Just do a search on google. It's easy to find. Anything to help our fellow trumpet players get a better deal.
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Mark Bradley
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jazzothman wrote:
Here is the latest price from Dillon Music the new 1600i pricing: lacquer $1245 and silver $1295. They have the silver horn in stock. Btw any advice between the silver and the lacquer?


The lacquer sure looks better-- a shame to cover over the different colors of the natural metals:

http://www.jupitermusic.com/jbi_instrumentDetails.aspx?cId=24&lId=2&sId=1&pId=542

A scientific piece of advice? No.
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supportlivejazz
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Bradley wrote:
jazzothman wrote:
Here is the latest price from Dillon Music the new 1600i pricing: lacquer $1245 and silver $1295. They have the silver horn in stock. Btw any advice between the silver and the lacquer?


The lacquer sure looks better-- a shame to cover over the different colors of the natural metals:

http://www.jupitermusic.com/jbi_instrumentDetails.aspx?cId=24&lId=2&sId=1&pId=542

A scientific piece of advice? No.
I agree. But then I've never liked the look of silver plated trumpets. Boring.... Lacquer preferred for sure.
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Yammie
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:14 am    Post subject: Got it! Reply with quote

I got my 1600I in lacquer yesterday afternoon, and promptly took it to a big band rehearsal.

Impressions:

Fit and finish are really good. I mean, really good, top notch production horn good. It's a really pretty horn with nicely engraved bell, much clearer finely detailed engraving than the etched version common nowadays. Fit and finish in areas that can't be reached by buffing are still good, which indicates they take an approach perhaps similar to Yamaha. Some domestic manufacturers still don't get this taken care of on their pro horns. Valves are good out of the box, and both tuning slides fit well (rounded and D-shaped). It's got a rose brass leadpipe, nickel balusters, and yellow (or is it gold?) brass bell. The balusters taper out to be fatter near the caps, reminiscent of the bottom taper of a Buescher 400 casing (which I've always thought to be a really attractive horn).

Lest I be accused of unbridled enthusiasm, I have to say the case is cheesy. It's a smaller naugahyde version of a current Bach-style case, albeit with backpack straps. No mute space, though it does have a slot for the accessory pack of brass valve guides, heavy bottom caps, replacement valve springs, and alternate smoth metal finger buttons. The alternate tuning slide is in a nice faux-fleece lined nylon pouch and is well-protected.

But how does it play? Very nicely, thanks! It had the rounded slide on it when I unpacked it, and that's the one I played until after the rehearsal. I did an A-B comparison with an 8310Z that has a bronze semi-round M/K slide. I felt like the 1600I had more body in the middle register, an more mid-overtones to the sound in general - though it definitely gets out there in the upper register! Very nice scale up to my practical range limits, didn't go past double C on it. I'll definitely be giving this a workout and it's a legitimate contender to be my primary overall horn.

My overall impression is this is a seriously nice axe. It feels a little more open than my 8310Z, and I like the sound better (confirmed by listeners as well). It feels more open than my Connstellation, and reminds me most of my 1937 Olds Super which I think is a .453 bore too. The quality of the fit and finish is really stunning given the price point - it's a ridiculously good deal at Washington Music Center prices.

I repeat that I hope Roger is getting a share of the proceeds, because it was his description of the horn that piqued my curiosity in the first place. Having played it, the horn stands on its own, but the buzz this horn is getting is in part due to Roger's involvement and I'd like to see him get paid
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akbaar
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Got it! Reply with quote

Yammie wrote:
I got my 1600I in lacquer yesterday afternoon, and promptly took it to a big band rehearsal.

Impressions:

Fit and finish are really good. I mean, really good, top notch production horn good. It's a really pretty horn with nicely engraved bell, much clearer finely detailed engraving than the etched version common nowadays. Fit and finish in areas that can't be reached by buffing are still good, which indicates they take an approach perhaps similar to Yamaha. Some domestic manufacturers still don't get this taken care of on their pro horns. Valves are good out of the box, and both tuning slides fit well (rounded and D-shaped). It's got a rose brass leadpipe, nickel balusters, and yellow (or is it gold?) brass bell. The balusters taper out to be fatter near the caps, reminiscent of the bottom taper of a Buescher 400 casing (which I've always thought to be a really attractive horn).

Lest I be accused of unbridled enthusiasm, I have to say the case is cheesy. It's a smaller naugahyde version of a current Bach-style case, albeit with backpack straps. No mute space, though it does have a slot for the accessory pack of brass valve guides, heavy bottom caps, replacement valve springs, and alternate smoth metal finger buttons. The alternate tuning slide is in a nice faux-fleece lined nylon pouch and is well-protected.

But how does it play? Very nicely, thanks! It had the rounded slide on it when I unpacked it, and that's the one I played until after the rehearsal. I did an A-B comparison with an 8310Z that has a bronze semi-round M/K slide. I felt like the 1600I had more body in the middle register, an more mid-overtones to the sound in general - though it definitely gets out there in the upper register! Very nice scale up to my practical range limits, didn't go past double C on it. I'll definitely be giving this a workout and it's a legitimate contender to be my primary overall horn.

My overall impression is this is a seriously nice axe. It feels a little more open than my 8310Z, and I like the sound better (confirmed by listeners as well). It feels more open than my Connstellation, and reminds me most of my 1937 Olds Super which I think is a .453 bore too. The quality of the fit and finish is really stunning given the price point - it's a ridiculously good deal at Washington Music Center prices.

I repeat that I hope Roger is getting a share of the proceeds, because it was his description of the horn that piqued my curiosity in the first place. Having played it, the horn stands on its own, but the buzz this horn is getting is in part due to Roger's involvement and I'd like to see him get paid


Looks like they ported over the discontinued RV-812 case as well. Along w/ the price.

Funny-no 'buzz' on 812-but now this ported (and no doubt 'tweaked' to some extent) and most importantly, testimonial horn is now all the rage.

Marketing is all!!

(PS--I checked out RI site and he is playing 3 different horns on the site--will be very interesting to see if Jupiter "steals' intellectual brain trust from Yamaha along w/ some other high profile endorsors.)

Wonder if Haido-san was involved in this project??
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Mark Bradley
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Jupiter RV-812 looks like an entirely different trumpet to me, plus a 460 bore:

http://www.jupitermusic.co.uk/rdas/pages/html/dFiles/dNews/Jupiter%2006%20Catalogue.pdf

I don't quite understand akbar why you seem so intent on disparaging this new model who R.Ingram apparently helped develop. It in no way looks like they just took this 812 and put Rogers name on it.
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trumpmac
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Got it! Reply with quote

Funny-no 'buzz' on 812-but now this ported (and no doubt 'tweaked' to some extent) and most importantly, testimonial horn is now all the rage.

Marketing is all!!

(PS--I checked out RI site and he is playing 3 different horns on the site--will be very interesting to see if Jupiter "steals' intellectual brain trust from Yamaha along w/ some other high profile endorsors.)

Wonder if Haido-san was involved in this project??[/quote]

I don't know where you think you saw where Roger is playing three horns. I know for a fact he's been playing the Jupitor exclusively for well over a year. And you surely don't know anything about Roger if you think he would just let Jupitor take some EU model and put his name on it.
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Bruin
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your review, Yammie, and I'm glad that you're enjoying this horn. It didn't surprise me to read that you found this to be an excellent horn. I've been reading excellent feedback on this horn since any of us here heard about this "XO" model, and I really like the sound of the XO flugelhorn. And, no, although I respect and appreciate Roger's endorsement of Jupiter a great deal, I didn't need it to know that the company has become a real contender. It was only a matter of time, and, well, ever since learning that the company invested a lot of money into retooling (starting with serial no. letter "E") and hiring a lot of American talent....

Congrats.
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jonalan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jazzothman wrote:
Here is the latest price from Dillon Music the new 1600i pricing: lacquer $1245 and silver $1295. They have the silver horn in stock. Btw any advice between the silver and the lacquer?

I keep checking Dillon's website and no mention of this horn, much less it being in stock. Who have you spoken to at Dillon's to get this price?
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RogerIngram
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In an effort to clear up any confusion regarding the new Jupiter XO Series 1600I, here is some additional information about the horn that you may find of interest:

The 1600I was designed by me and the Jupiter design team: Don Sawday, Pat Sheridan and Sam Pilafian. After nine months of research and development we produced the first prototype in September 2009.

The 1600I has a .453 "uniform bore" (as opposed to a "dual bore" or "step bore" such as a Schilke S42 or the Yamaha 8310Z,) it has stainless steel valves, metal valve guides, regular weight finger buttons and bottom caps and is available in either brass lacquer or silver. The horn is of a medium weight (neither paper thin nor unnecessarily heavy.) It has nickle upper valve casings and outer valve slide tubes. The lead pipe is made with rose brass. The bell is being manufactured with a new process and has a wonderful full sound with a great range of overtones.

Included with each horn is a kit with alternate heavy bottom caps, thin finger buttons, extra valve springs of a different strength, plastic valve guides and the revolutionary new "True Bore" tuning slide insert sleeves. These sleeves, when inserted, help maintain the nodal integrity of the instrument which in turn establishes "even slotting" in the upper and extreme upper registers of the instrument.

It is completely up to the purchaser of this great new instrument to decide which combination of bottom caps, valve springs, valve guides and finger buttons to use. In addition, the purchaser has a choice to use the "True Bore" sleeves or not. Personally, I prefer the regular weight finger buttons and bottom caps, the metal valve guides, the regular strength springs and I also use the new "True Bore" insert sleeves.

The design of the new 1600I was originally intended as a "commercial" lead horn, but after having many noteworthy classical and jazz trumpet players test the trumpet, we have come to the conclusion that this is a great "all-around" trumpet; the best one ever made in my opinion. Even though it has what is considered a "medium" bore size, it most certainly does NOT feel "stuffy" or "tight." The bell-bore-leadpipe combination is perfectly balanced. This horn has great projection along with a beautiful full sound.

As I've said, "without a doubt, this is the best trumpet I've ever played." (And yes, I DO play the XO 1600I and the new XO series flugelhorn exclusively; in fact, I have sold all my other Bb trumpets.)


All the best,
Roger
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ldwoods
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Roger. It is a great blessing to be able to "hear" directly from such a legendary player.

FYI, Washington Music emailed me a real good price quote on the horn. I am really tempted to break my vow of not buying any more horns for a while....
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nyctrumpeter
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't wait to check out this horn. I have heard many good things about it.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to add my note of appreciation to you, Roger, for posting on this forum. I have a great deal of respect for you and for your contributions to aspiring trumpet players. A couple of my close friends have recently had lessons with you and came away all the better for it. Also, one of those (a real horn geek) played your horn and has since ordered one for himself.

Can you comment further on what seems to be a move toward medium bore horns? I play a Callet SIMA .453 bore horn myself and absolutely love it. Do you believe large bore horns are less efficient and unnecessary? Or, is it that different approaches to playing make the move to medium bore the way to go? Any comment you can make on that? Thanks-Ken B.
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