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Jon Arnold
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Joined: 07 Jan 2002
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 Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I got one stuck in my horn the other day and I used a HW Brass Saver cleaning brush to get it out. |
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altamira_28
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Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 241
Location: Huntsville, AL
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| PW-Factor wrote: | I got one of the Nodal Stabalizers stuck in the bottom tuning slide. I read the instructions very carefully, and put the XON with 4 notches in the bottom slide. It went in just far enough to disappear, and is now stuck. Won't move either direction.
And of course, my horn didn't have the removal tool, so now I called the music store I bought it from in the hope that they have one, or misplaced mine. |
At the risk of sounding condescending, (and I really don't mean to, trust me) I'd like to ask a couple of questions:
1) Did you put the notches in the slide first? Again, sounds like a stupid question, but that can make the difference.
2) Did you grease it first?
3) Did it just slide in with ease with the insert of the tuning slide, or did it seem forced?
Again, not meaning to say you didn't do exactly what the instructions called for, but I myself skip over things in the excitement of trying them out... to my own detriment.
If the answer to any of my questions was a no, then there you go. I've used the XONS myself a couple of times, but never really cared for them. Maybe I'll get back to them at a later date. Hope everything works out well for you. I've known cats that have switched to this horn, and this has to be the exception rather than the rule with this horn. The 1600I is a great axe, and it has actually changed my playing for the better. I would suggest getting a finer crochet needle from Wal-Mart for XON removal next time, however.
As for myself: I had an issue with the lacquer on mine as well. Didn't really get it fixed until I got to Korea on assignment. I had my wife call Jupiter. They promptly got a replacement out to me. The guys couldn't ship it directly to me because of trade agreements, but got it to my wife before I got mine back to them. It's been over a year since then (with heavy use) and the lacquer problem is long gone.
I currently use for my setup the rounded tuning slide, standard valve springs, standard valve caps, lightweight valve buttons, brass valve guides, and no XONS. I too experienced the almost 1/4" extra pull on the D-slide, which freaked me out until I learned everyone had that issue.
Sorry for the long post, but I've been using this horn for over two years now, on the job, and couldn't be happier. If I could afford the new XO picc, I'd be on it in a second.
Josh
_________________
XO Brass 1600I
XO Brass 1602LTR
XO Brass 1646 Flugelhorn
XO Brass Tribune 1622 C Trumpet
Jupiter Tribune 1220 Bb Cornet
Jupiter 1700S
Monette B3S3, C3S3, B4LS1, B4LSS1, B4LVS1, BP6, Bob Reeves 43WF, Denis Wick 3B Heavy Top Cornet |
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PW-Factor
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Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 909
Location: Joliet, IL
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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I followed the instructions to a T. My local music store ended up getting the stuck one pulled out, and Jupiter sent some that fit properly. Plus I got the little removal tool.
I put them in, and I didn't really care for them. They kind of feel like playing through a straw to me. Once I got over D or E above the staff I started to hear a lot of air in my sound. So I took them back out.
I'm playing it with flat finger buttons, lightweight springs, brass valve guides, heavy bottom caps, and the rounded tuning slide. The valves are super fast and smooth, and I like the blow this way.
Thanks for the help everyone.
It's really a great horn. Jupiter is doing now what Yamaha did a couple decades ago.
Part of my wants to look into the XO Flugel, but I have dreamt of the Kanstul 1525 ever since I first played one...
Time will tell.
_________________
Ska/Reggae - The Selectones
New Orleans Funk - The Big Lagniappe
Raw Brass HB2 - Hammond PW
Gen II ACB Doubler Flugel - Curry 5FL |
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altamira_28
Veteran Member
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 241
Location: Huntsville, AL
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| PW-Factor wrote: | I followed the instructions to a T. My local music store ended up getting the stuck one pulled out, and Jupiter sent some that fit properly. Plus I got the little removal tool.
I put them in, and I didn't really care for them. They kind of feel like playing through a straw to me. Once I got over D or E above the staff I started to hear a lot of air in my sound. So I took them back out.
I'm playing it with flat finger buttons, lightweight springs, brass valve guides, heavy bottom caps, and the rounded tuning slide. The valves are super fast and smooth, and I like the blow this way.
Thanks for the help everyone.
It's really a great horn. Jupiter is doing now what Yamaha did a couple decades ago.
Part of my wants to look into the XO Flugel, but I have dreamt of the Kanstul 1525 ever since I first played one...
Time will tell. |
Whew! 
Glad to hear it, man. I agree about the XONS. It must be a feel thing for some folks. I also agree about Jupiter. I don't want to knock the rest of the XO series endorsed by the Boston Brass (nothing but the utmost respect for those cats), but it seems as if Roger's XO has taken the trumpet world by the short-hairs. I've had a lot of cats try my horn, and the majority of lead / jazz guys love it. Some can't afford a new horn right now, and some JUST bought a new one and love it. Whatever the case, they all agree that it's most definitely not a Jupiter of old, and all would own one if they were currently in the market.
Can't speak as to the XO flugel, but I know Roger uses it, and I've played the picc. That picc is fantastic.
I occasionally put the heavy valve caps on if I need to add more core than bite to my sound. It still amazes me as to the versatility of this horn. I was partial to the D-slide at first, but after playing with the rounded slide for quite awhile, I find I can step on the gas a bit more without it biting back at me. I suspect I will continue to experiment with this horn and it's accessories to further my playing and it's versatility. That's astounding. Two years later, and I'm still experimenting with this horn.
Well, enough of the love fest. Enjoy!
Josh
_________________
XO Brass 1600I
XO Brass 1602LTR
XO Brass 1646 Flugelhorn
XO Brass Tribune 1622 C Trumpet
Jupiter Tribune 1220 Bb Cornet
Jupiter 1700S
Monette B3S3, C3S3, B4LS1, B4LSS1, B4LVS1, BP6, Bob Reeves 43WF, Denis Wick 3B Heavy Top Cornet |
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ejweiss
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Joined: 15 May 2009
Posts: 297
Location: WI
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| With the long tuning slide pull, has anyone tried putting in both sets of xon stabilizers in? |
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PW-Factor
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Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 909
Location: Joliet, IL
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| ejweiss wrote: | | With the long tuning slide pull, has anyone tried putting in both sets of xon stabilizers in? |
I just tried it yesterday. I noticed no additional ill-effects compared to just using one. With both sets in the horn ends up roughly in-tune for me when pushed all the way in. The blow was about the same as with one set inserted.
I kind of want to try them again once I choose a lead mouthpiece particularly for this horn.
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New Orleans Funk - The Big Lagniappe
Raw Brass HB2 - Hammond PW
Gen II ACB Doubler Flugel - Curry 5FL |
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altamira_28
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Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 241
Location: Huntsville, AL
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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I was on Roger's site recently, and noticed he's got his own series of mpcs. Since he uses the 1600I exclusively, I'd be interested to find out how some of them do in mine. Since mpcs are obviously more an individual taste than horns, I realize that the chances I can use his lead pieces successfully are slim. I still am curious about the matches of the pieces to horn.
The only reason this didn't go on the mpc forum is that it's directly related to the horn itself. (In case the moderators were wondering) 
Back to the woodshed...
Josh
_________________
XO Brass 1600I
XO Brass 1602LTR
XO Brass 1646 Flugelhorn
XO Brass Tribune 1622 C Trumpet
Jupiter Tribune 1220 Bb Cornet
Jupiter 1700S
Monette B3S3, C3S3, B4LS1, B4LSS1, B4LVS1, BP6, Bob Reeves 43WF, Denis Wick 3B Heavy Top Cornet |
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altamira_28
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Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 241
Location: Huntsville, AL
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| PW-Factor wrote: | | ejweiss wrote: | | With the long tuning slide pull, has anyone tried putting in both sets of xon stabilizers in? |
I just tried it yesterday. I noticed no additional ill-effects compared to just using one. With both sets in the horn ends up roughly in-tune for me when pushed all the way in. The blow was about the same as with one set inserted.
I kind of want to try them again once I choose a lead mouthpiece particularly for this horn. |
Roger was using a Marcinkiewicz Shew 1.25 for some stuff up until recently. (See above post) I do find it slightly amusing that he wasn't using his own piece. Kinda makes me happy to know that even masters like Roger are still on the Safari as well. I guess we're all on the hunt for help at the front end, eh?
Josh
_________________
XO Brass 1600I
XO Brass 1602LTR
XO Brass 1646 Flugelhorn
XO Brass Tribune 1622 C Trumpet
Jupiter Tribune 1220 Bb Cornet
Jupiter 1700S
Monette B3S3, C3S3, B4LS1, B4LSS1, B4LVS1, BP6, Bob Reeves 43WF, Denis Wick 3B Heavy Top Cornet |
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altamira_28
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Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 241
Location: Huntsville, AL
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ejweiss wrote: | | With the long tuning slide pull, has anyone tried putting in both sets of xon stabilizers in? |
As to that question in particular: both sets of XONs would put the slide too far out for me. I would imagine that, back to back, they'd be a royal pain to get out with the crochet needle they give you as a removal tool anyway. To be perfectly honest, I haven't tried the XONs since I switched to the rounded slide. I used the larger XONs for the extraneous pull on the D slide, and didn't like them.
I will start with the small XONs as soon as my gig schedule dies down a bit. The Army pays for horns, but I find I'm better on my own horn, liability be damned. I'm the exception rather than the rule on that one, though. A lot of these guys just play whatever the unit has in stock for them. I've come a long way just to play a Yammie Xeno with crappy valves. I digress...
Since we're on this thread... has anyone experienced weird discoloration of the thin valve buttons? I'm not hung up on looks alone, but I try to keep my horns in relatively good shape, visually speaking. I used to pick Cadillacs because I knew my lifestyle at the time, and, well, stuff got damaged a lot. Now, however, I really want to keep things in pristine order, but don't get OCD if stuff happens; as it does with a very active gig count. Just an aside... do with it what one will.
Josh
_________________
XO Brass 1600I
XO Brass 1602LTR
XO Brass 1646 Flugelhorn
XO Brass Tribune 1622 C Trumpet
Jupiter Tribune 1220 Bb Cornet
Jupiter 1700S
Monette B3S3, C3S3, B4LS1, B4LSS1, B4LVS1, BP6, Bob Reeves 43WF, Denis Wick 3B Heavy Top Cornet |
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RogerIngram
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Location: Chicago
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PW-Factor
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Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 909
Location: Joliet, IL
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Having had this horn for a little over a week and completing a number of concerts, here are my observations.
I played Blue Shades with the Wind Symphony I assistant direct, and man, this horn sounded great. I have a naturally dark sound, and this horn, with a larger more open mouthpiece, just had that sound I had been searching for. And the blow was to DIE for. I have really enjoyed the smoothness and efficiency I feel with my M Bore Martin, and this horn had all of that, with a sweet sparkle and roundness I haven't gotten from ANY other horn.
Then, I went up to Michigan to play Fame for a friend. It was a high school production, but the Reed player, Percussionist, and Trombone all had Master's Degrees in music. This horn can really cut like a laser. I have always played sizzling lead stuff by sort of overblowing the horn, if that makes sense. This horn didn't particularly like that, but I found I had an easier mezzo volume upper register than any horn. I need to work on adjusting my playing so that I can play that range with the same easiness, and just step on the gas differently.
I played it tonight after taking a day off post-show weekend, and it felt so great. Up to F# with ease, and some fat, sizzling sound up to there, too.
As a side note that some people may not be aware of, the horn ships with Ultra Pure valve oil. In all honesty, that may have been the most impressive thing about the whole package to me. It just screamed quality when I saw they didn't even cut corners as far as the included valve oil goes.
I can't wait to see where this horn takes me.
_________________
Ska/Reggae - The Selectones
New Orleans Funk - The Big Lagniappe
Raw Brass HB2 - Hammond PW
Gen II ACB Doubler Flugel - Curry 5FL |
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RandyTX
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Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 5299
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| PW-Factor wrote: | | As a side note that some people may not be aware of, the horn ships with Ultra Pure valve oil. In all honesty, that may have been the most impressive thing about the whole package to me. It just screamed quality when I saw they didn't even cut corners as far as the included valve oil goes. |
First off, glad you're enjoying it. But this struck me funny.
If it ships with ultra-pure, it's new. Mine came with something else, a generic bottle of Jupiter oil, iirc. I suppose a dealer could have dropped Ulra-pure in there instead also.
Also, Ultra-Pure isn't particularly expensive. I don't disagree about it being a good oil, but it's not like they dropped a gold Krugerrand in there.
Finally, the brand of valve oil that does (or doesn't) come in the case has almost nothing to do with build quality.
FWIW, I use Ultra-Pure myself. 
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"Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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Jon Arnold
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Joined: 07 Jan 2002
Posts: 2026
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| Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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I am now playing on the 1600i Ingram Horn and the 1646 XO flugelhorn. I am extremely happy with the playability and craftsmanship of both instruments. As I said in an earlier post, the HW brass saver cleaning brush is a great way to get a stuck nodal stabilizer out of the horn.
My flugelhorn is the red brass lacquer version and I was impressed with how evenly it plays. I played up to high C with no problems. It was the easiest 2 octave scale I have ever played on any flugelhorn. I like the classic French .413 bore. Pitch is great and the notes slot very well. I really like the sterling silver leadpipe. For anyone who is looking for a great flugelhorn, I think the XO deserves some consideration. |
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PW-Factor
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 909
Location: Joliet, IL
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| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| RandyTX wrote: | | PW-Factor wrote: | | As a side note that some people may not be aware of, the horn ships with Ultra Pure valve oil. In all honesty, that may have been the most impressive thing about the whole package to me. It just screamed quality when I saw they didn't even cut corners as far as the included valve oil goes. |
First off, glad you're enjoying it. But this struck me funny.
If it ships with ultra-pure, it's new. Mine came with something else, a generic bottle of Jupiter oil, iirc. I suppose a dealer could have dropped Ulra-pure in there instead also.
Also, Ultra-Pure isn't particularly expensive. I don't disagree about it being a good oil, but it's not like they dropped a gold Krugerrand in there.
Finally, the brand of valve oil that does (or doesn't) come in the case has almost nothing to do with build quality.
FWIW, I use Ultra-Pure myself. |
I recognize all of that. But after being used to seeing Jupiter brand oil, and then seeing what I consider a very good valve oil, I was pleasantly surprised. I guess it made me think of a good attention to detail.
Of course my too-large nodal stabilizers didn't exactly scream quality control, either.
That being said, I am still impressed with how Jupiter has stepped up their game.
_________________
Ska/Reggae - The Selectones
New Orleans Funk - The Big Lagniappe
Raw Brass HB2 - Hammond PW
Gen II ACB Doubler Flugel - Curry 5FL |
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HillBilly Joe
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Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 58
Location: Saratoga, NY
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| Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:22 am Post subject: |
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Has anyone made a video showing them insert the xons? Its not all that clear from the insert exactly HOW to put the xons in. It seems to me that the bottom one goes in the trumpet body itself, yet the top xons goes into the tuning slide. Is that correct? I don't see that clearly outlined (though, geometrically, its the only possible solution). Anyway, just want to make sure I am doing it correctly. And that removal tool needs to be about 1 inch longer, its tough to get that thing out of there on the bottom! (yes, I slathered them in ultra pure slide grease first). Thanks, all. I just got this horn back after a bit of a horn trial spree with the help of our good friend at ACB. The grass isn't always greener, and I missed this one.
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Yamaha 8335 LA Gen II
ACB Doubler Flugelhorn
Manchester Brass Pocket Trumpet
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PW-Factor
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Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 909
Location: Joliet, IL
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| Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Yes, the bottom XON goes in the leg attached the the 3rd valve.
They both go notches first into the female ends of the tuning slide area of the horn.
If it doesn't slide in *very* easily, don't try to force it. It will get horrifically stuck.
_________________
Ska/Reggae - The Selectones
New Orleans Funk - The Big Lagniappe
Raw Brass HB2 - Hammond PW
Gen II ACB Doubler Flugel - Curry 5FL |
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altamira_28
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Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 241
Location: Huntsville, AL
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| RogerIngram wrote: | I stopped my mouthpiece search almost 30 years ago. The "Ingram Signature Line" of mouthpieces are improved duplicates of the four mouthpieces I've been using since the 1980's. I use the stock four mouthpieces of my signature line exclusively. I'm certainly not "on the Safari."
Roger |
Wasn't trying to judge, Roger. I just know you had your own Marcinkiewicz piece and at the time of my horn purchase, you were using a Shew 1.25. The website didn't say you were using your own Marc. piece, so it was slightly amusing; worth a bit of a chuckle, as it were. Maybe an oversight on the part of your webmasters, dunno, just tickling. I'll certainly check out your line as a match to the horn.
Josh
_________________
XO Brass 1600I
XO Brass 1602LTR
XO Brass 1646 Flugelhorn
XO Brass Tribune 1622 C Trumpet
Jupiter Tribune 1220 Bb Cornet
Jupiter 1700S
Monette B3S3, C3S3, B4LS1, B4LSS1, B4LVS1, BP6, Bob Reeves 43WF, Denis Wick 3B Heavy Top Cornet |
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Jon Arnold
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Joined: 07 Jan 2002
Posts: 2026
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm using a Pickett 3D and 10-5 backbore with my horn right now and it is working pretty well, FWIW. Roger's mouthpieces are made by Pickett Brass. |
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saxophonist56
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Joined: 17 Apr 2013
Posts: 193
Location: ca
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| Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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i a/b'd the xo with a xeno rgs and a 58 olds recording restored to like new.
the xo had an ability to play upper notes very easily as did the olds. the olds was so free blowing but the xo just felt more modern. the yamaha didn't do a whole lot for me. seemed like a stuffy bach 37. nice but not jawdropping. both the recording and xo had jaw dropping characteristics. if the recording didn't have the spring loaded third valve slide i would have preferred it but the jupiter just seemed more modern (duh) perhaps not as freeblowing as the olds. i also owned a 180S37 bach and it probably would have won or tied. imho. not much to complain about the bach. the most awsome thing is that none of them cost more than 2300 and the olds and xo were both around 1500 1600. try getting a pro tenor for that kind of money! sax that is ....both my mkvi's are $5-10k horns. |
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Fredrik
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Joined: 25 Aug 2012
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
I've followed this thread with great interest and must say that I'm very curious about this horn. I guess some of you have used it a lot for a couple of years time by now - does it still holds the same quality after break in? I'm thinking mainly about the feeling of the valves, the laquer and so on...
Regards
F |
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