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Roger Ingram Model Jupiter XO Trumpet 1600I


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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there still any dealers selling this horn at a substantial discount?
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BobD
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out Austin Custom Brass. Trent may have a demo at a discounted price.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you!
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houdini1313
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading this thread, and finally having a music shop that had a 1600i to try, I bought the horn (lacquer version). Thanks to all previous posters for the tips and tricks about the accessories (bottom xon got stuck, hw brassaver brush got it right out!) Looking forward to testing out all the extras, and will be putting in through its paces in the next few weeks (commercial and legit with Easter coming up)

First impressions (similar to when I test drove it a few weeks back) is that it is a very responsive horn, great core to the sound, and very versatile. It isn't as light feeling as a 8310Z, and the horn has a very broad dynamic range, and can really light up (but doesn't feel stuffy) Will report back once its more practice/gig tested!

Any other thoughts on the horn? Glad I got one!
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TrentAustin
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobD wrote:
Check out Austin Custom Brass. Trent may have a demo at a discounted price.


Thanks Bob! I actually have three demos I just got in from the factory (trade show samples).

These are wonderful horns!
-T
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houdini1313
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't want to start a new thread, but had some questions some fellow Ingram owners might answer to. Firstly the horn has been great since I recently got it. Played everything in the real world from lead/commercial and used it in 2 Easter services this year, and was happy with how it sounded (Very versatile) I have two questions for you.....

1. Valve maintenance and changes? I switched to the brass valve guide and prefer the feel of them, and I also oil the valves each time before playing (Ultrapure) Having never owned a horn with stainless steel valves, so do the valves develop or change over time, and are there other special considerations to look into considering proper valve maintenance for the Ingram horn?

2. Lacquer. My horn is the lacquer version, and while its been said that Jupiter fixed the lacquer problem from a bad batch of lacquer processing, I want to be sure I am taking the best care of the horn/lacquer coating I can. My current care would be a brief, gentle wipe down of contact areas with a clean microfiber cloth, is this damaging and is there a better way to keep hand oils etc off the horn? Are lacquer polishing cloths from music stores a waste of money or useful? Any opinions/experiences would be greatly appreciated!
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veery715
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

houdini1313 wrote:
Didn't want to start a new thread, but had some questions some fellow Ingram owners might answer to. Firstly the horn has been great since I recently got it. Played everything in the real world from lead/commercial and used it in 2 Easter services this year, and was happy with how it sounded (Very versatile) I have two questions for you.....

1. Valve maintenance and changes? I switched to the brass valve guide and prefer the feel of them, and I also oil the valves each time before playing (Ultrapure) Having never owned a horn with stainless steel valves, so do the valves develop or change over time, and are there other special considerations to look into considering proper valve maintenance for the Ingram horn?

2. Lacquer. My horn is the lacquer version, and while its been said that Jupiter fixed the lacquer problem from a bad batch of lacquer processing, I want to be sure I am taking the best care of the horn/lacquer coating I can. My current care would be a brief, gentle wipe down of contact areas with a clean microfiber cloth, is this damaging and is there a better way to keep hand oils etc off the horn? Are lacquer polishing cloths from music stores a waste of money or useful? Any opinions/experiences would be greatly appreciated!
#2, you are doing it right. Just make sure you wash or replace the microfiber cloth every now and then as they have a tendency to hold dirt particles which may scratch the finish. An occasional bit of Windex for oily marks, slide grease or fingerprints may help.
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crose
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mine is silver - so can't offer any finish advice

My valves are great and not very fussy. I played Schilke horns forever and love Schilke valves - but my Jupiter valves are wonderful. I just use Al Cass Fast and have never had a problem.

I do use the plastic guides - my brass ones made my valves a bit noisy. The may just be a not fit well or may have broken in over time, but I just kept playing the plastic ones.

My ONLY 2 gripes (other than I HATE the engraving on the bell) is the case is awful and the rounded tuning slide makes my horn out of tune. Intonation is as good as my Schilkes, but the rounded slide makes it poor. Not sure if I would have used it anyway...... The heavy bottom caps also do strange things to the horn and I don't use them. They really change the feel and sloting - and not in a good way.

Glad you like your horn. I too use mine for everything. Most verastile horn I have ever played. Very mouthpiece sensative and easy to change the sound of. Love to have folks play it and be amazed at how open it blows. Just a great all around trumpet - enjoy!
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

etc-etc wrote:
Are there still any dealers selling this horn at a substantial discount?


Pretty sure the answer to this is likely to be somewhat biased, because a couple of years ago you could buy it new for about $1200 (like I did). Now, it sells for $1800 and up.

50% increases in the price of something during a time period where most others have held fairly steady, or perhaps gone up by a couple hundred at most, make me question the "discounting" of these horns today.

I suspect the rebranding from Jupiter to XO Brass was designed in part to help raise the selling price on these instruments.

I'm not saying it's not a good trumpet, or well built, just pointing out that the sales price has moved a very large amount in a short period of time.
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TrentAustin
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandyTX wrote:
etc-etc wrote:
Are there still any dealers selling this horn at a substantial discount?


Pretty sure the answer to this is likely to be somewhat biased, because a couple of years ago you could buy it new for about $1200 (like I did). Now, it sells for $1800 and up.

50% increases in the price of something during a time period where most others have held fairly steady, or perhaps gone up by a couple hundred at most, make me question the "discounting" of these horns today.

I suspect the rebranding from Jupiter to XO Brass was designed in part to help raise the selling price on these instruments.

I'm not saying it's not a good trumpet, or well built, just pointing out that the sales price has moved a very large amount in a short period of time.


FWIW my dealer price has gone up on new ones well over 50% since I started selling these. I can still get deals on some of the Jupiter branded ones as show samples (I still have two of these at fairly large discounts).

Best,
T
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trumpethead
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent trumpets for sure but I agree, what began as a modest priced, great playing horn doesn't even figure in the running for me now. They've priced themselves out of the equation.

Give me my CarolBrass trumpet every day, all day - a lot cheaper and personally, I haven't played anything better.
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falado
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does Carolbrass have a .450 or .453 to.468 step bore horn? If so which model? Every time I read a description of a Carolbrass it's a .460 bore horn. My Lawler TL does a great job if I want to play a ML horn.

I had a 1600i that I wish I had kept, but I sold it to a friend of mine. His daughter really wanted to step up her playing and wanted a pro horn. She really loves the horn and has been practicing more since she got it. I didn't play the 1600i much after I got my WT and the 1600i needed to be played, it's a great horn.
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Jon Arnold
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been playing a 1600i for over a year and the finish is like new. Great horn!
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altamira_28
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update for those still wondering about this fantastic horn.

1) When mouthpieces are concerned, I find them to be a very personal endeavor, and experiences vary. I found that the Monette STC-1 weight mouthpieces that I list on my signature work FANTASTIC on this horn. This may be due to the fact that those pieces are very open-throated in the standard series, and I like feeling my resistance a bit further in the horn and not at the mouthpiece. Plus I like the added weight and balance. Maybe GR would work for this, as well?

2) The finish is still as I posted last time. Not any contact wear, but the places where my nails and wedding ring have scratched off the finish are evident. I only take my wedding ring off to take a shower, for fear it'll go down the drain, and it is very special to me, so, yeah, sorry horn.

3) I did end up getting that XO 1700S from a killer deal I got from Trent, and use a Monette picc piece for that as well. This picc loves it. I started this picc out on a Curry 10.5P (which I still use on a particularly demanding picc performance, BTW) but the Monette gives this horn a HUGE sound. Couple that with the heavy weight caps, and the picc sounds dark and sweet.

Yeah, the picc part of this post wasn't in the original discussion, the XO Brass horns I've played are great, and I love to spread the word about horns that still fall below the 3K pricetag that are worth the look.

Happy Hunting!

Josh
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll definitely consider a monette on this... Though I usually go sharp on monette gear and I am sharper than normal on this horn (over an inch of pull).

I really find this wonderfully adaptable. I read someone saying how it was bright and definitely a lead horn. While we all make different tones and interact with a horn differently, both myself and a busy lead player find it to be very rounded and even. Perfect middle of the road. I love how it responds to different mouthpieces. I use a Shew 1.25 cut for Warburton backbores and a 4 BB currently (a 2 in the post) and a Getzen 10 1/2C. With a deep v cup it is like butter!!

Anyway ymmv. I'm only in my 3rd month or so of owning it but I've done 50+ odd gigs on it so far... Enjoying every moment!
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altamira_28
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monette pieces do require a longer than normal acclimation period, and it's difficult to switch back and forth from Monette to other pieces, so that's why almost all of my pieces are Monette. The only exception to this is the Curry 10.5P for picc, but picc requires a different approach, anyway; maybe that's why I have no trouble with it.

I have a naturally dark sound (classically trained) so my sound on the 1600I runs middle of the road with a slight sizzle. Those with a naturally bright sound may find the horn a bit too bright, but throw the heavy caps on the valves, and the brass valve guides, and that should take care of that.

Josh
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

altamira_28 wrote:
Monette pieces do require a longer than normal acclimation period, and it's difficult to switch back and forth from Monette to other pieces, so that's why almost all of my pieces are Monette. The only exception to this is the Curry 10.5P for picc, but picc requires a different approach, anyway; maybe that's why I have no trouble with it.

I have a naturally dark sound (classically trained) so my sound on the 1600I runs middle of the road with a slight sizzle. Those with a naturally bright sound may find the horn a bit too bright, but throw the heavy caps on the valves, and the brass valve guides, and that should take care of that.

Josh


I daren't say I have a dark sound through training, but I have played in BBB in the past for a number of years and I do feel my tone darker than others... The sound I strive for is rich full and bright, and to get what I want I have always tended toward shallower pieces. (Shew 1.25, warb 6s). It seems that smaller gear helps me get there, and with the 1600i it has rounded my tone out. I love full sounding dark tone too, and feel I can make my sound head this way easily on this trumpet (I'll never sound orchestral...), but rarely do I play like that. 90% of my work is pop, jazz and commercial style playing... Fighting amps!

Do you find when you want to light up it really projects like no other? Directional and powerful!

Do you find the feedback behind the horn deceiving as to make you think you are too quiet sometimes?
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altamira_28
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bach_again wrote:
altamira_28 wrote:
Monette pieces do require a longer than normal acclimation period, and it's difficult to switch back and forth from Monette to other pieces, so that's why almost all of my pieces are Monette. The only exception to this is the Curry 10.5P for picc, but picc requires a different approach, anyway; maybe that's why I have no trouble with it.

I have a naturally dark sound (classically trained) so my sound on the 1600I runs middle of the road with a slight sizzle. Those with a naturally bright sound may find the horn a bit too bright, but throw the heavy caps on the valves, and the brass valve guides, and that should take care of that.

Josh


I daren't say I have a dark sound through training, but I have played in BBB in the past for a number of years and I do feel my tone darker than others... The sound I strive for is rich full and bright, and to get what I want I have always tended toward shallower pieces. (Shew 1.25, warb 6s). It seems that smaller gear helps me get there, and with the 1600i it has rounded my tone out. I love full sounding dark tone too, and feel I can make my sound head this way easily on this trumpet (I'll never sound orchestral...), but rarely do I play like that. 90% of my work is pop, jazz and commercial style playing... Fighting amps!

Do you find when you want to light up it really projects like no other? Directional and powerful!

Do you find the feedback behind the horn deceiving as to make you think you are too quiet sometimes?


I feel that you can push a little bit, but you can't really force the resistance further into the horn like a M/L. I do find that mouthpieces make a difference in how the sound is projected. I used to play on Marcinkiewicz pieces, and it was a direct, focused sound. The Monette pieces fill the sound out and broaden everything out a bit without taking away from the projection.

The feedback is great on this horn. I played on a 6310Z for a while, but there was little feedback, making me believe I wasn't projecting. I find this horn to be in the middle of the feedback range, so I play efficiently and trust the guy in front of the band to let me know if I need to come out. I guess if you're really used to some of the Bachs, Yammies, and Benges out there, the feedback could take some getting used to.

Josh
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone find the slots on the ingram horn incredibly wide?

I play a tight mpc setup (shew 1.25 with a warburton 2 bb) and I find that my pitch can ride high if im not super careful to play down in pitch when I ascend...is this a horn/mpc thing, or does this horn just have massive wide slots?

I like how the horn plays, I just notice that between G and "high" C im quite sharp and those notes have a massive leeway in pitch slotting.

High G (4 ledgers) slots so sweet though!! The A and Ab too... A nice surprise. My Conn 60B just doesnt match up!!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bach_again wrote:
Does anyone find the slots on the ingram horn incredibly wide?

I play a tight mpc setup (shew 1.25 with a warburton 2 bb) and I find that my pitch can ride high if im not super careful to play down in pitch when I ascend...is this a horn/mpc thing, or does this horn just have massive wide slots?

I like how the horn plays, I just notice that between G and "high" C im quite sharp and those notes have a massive leeway in pitch slotting.

High G (4 ledgers) slots so sweet though!! The A and Ab too... A nice surprise. My Conn 60B just doesnt match up!!


I have also found that partials right around the top of the staff can very easily ride sharp. Glad I'm not the only one. It doesn't seem to change much between Curry, Hammond, and Laskey mouthpieces for me. I have found the Curry seems to play very nicely, with perfect core.
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