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Roger Ingram Model Jupiter XO Trumpet 1600I


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bach_again
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crose wrote:
Mike,

Light finger buttons - just like the feel of the metal

Springs? - not sure - what came in it

I do not care for the metal guides - very noisy and did not notice much a sound difference.

Square slide - don't care for the rounded

Heavy bottom caps - do not use them - tried lots of combinations (just 3rd/1&3/all 3) They change the horn and not sure how. Slots are changed but feels very different. For some reason they make me crack notes (tighter slots?) Also make the horn sound dead - not necessarily darker. Tried them many times. Horn slots well as it is and I like it to sound like a trumpet - not a cornet

I use my horn for everything and love how it plays.


I have basically the exact same experience. The heavy caps seemed to rob the horn of resonance. I didn't like them.

Square slide for sure - I try the round one every few months, thinking I will give it another go, or maybe it will help me fix something I do wrong... it just doesn't feel right to me. I have never liked rounded slides on any horn.

I prefer the feel and look of the inlaid standard buttons, but the metal buttons seem to let the horn respond better, so I am with that. I would prefer the metal buttons were like my 1525 buttons - I love those.

I had fun playing it on a quartet gig last night. I am really loving this new Reeves 42ES 692sL piece. It really clicks with this horn! BIG sound!! And nice clean slots to high G, up to the doubles is all my fault =)

Has anyone had this horn blueprinted? Had all the braces popped and the excess solder and tension removed? I have been told that this can help it a lot from an excellent player who did this to his old 1600.

There's only 2 or 3 horns I would ever consider swapping to, but those cost more than my last car (hey I'm a musician, thats not hard to believe!)... Van Laar Chuck Findlay, Schagerl Morrison Meister model... Maybe in 10 years...
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houdini1313
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is my current setup......

Brass valve guides
Whatever springs came on the horn
Metal valve tops (not the mother of pearl regular tops)
No nodal stabilizers (but plan to experiment with those soon)
Square slide (used the rounded slide for church gigs with a legit mpc)
No heavy caps
Replaced rubber spit valve with cork

Does anyone out there use the cons (nodal stabilizers)? Also what process did you use to go back and forth to test? And what were your results?
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lakejw
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used the nodes, or "X-ons." I changed mouthpieces and had to push in more than they allowed, but when I tried to take them out one was stuck. Had been in there over a year, so I'm not surprised. I took it to Landress Brass and Josh took it out for me, no charge! He did not seem surprised either, probably a common occurrence. I haven't tried putting them back in, but I think it's just slightly less resistant with them in. Not a huge difference.

Otherwise, I use the squared tuning slide (resistance yea), heavy finger buttons, brass guides, heavy springs, heavy bottom caps, and I use a Leather Specialties valve guard. The heavier weight in the valve cluster focuses the sound and centers the pitch for me, and keeps the sound from becoming too brittle. FWIW mine is silver plated, but I am aiming to get a backup in raw brass.

I love this horn.
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abundrefo
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been reading a lot about the 1600i and since this is the most popular topic about it, I'd like to ask a question.

I've been reading everywhere that "this is a very good horn for the money", but also a few testimonies from people who say they sold their S42 after trying a 1600i.

So, if the 1600i is "good for the money" but some people like it better than an S42, what would be better than the 1600i, for a higher price, while maintaining the same characteristics?
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hackney_wick
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Delete

Last edited by hackney_wick on Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

abundrefo wrote:
I've been reading a lot about the 1600i and since this is the most popular topic about it, I'd like to ask a question.

I've been reading everywhere that "this is a very good horn for the money", but also a few testimonies from people who say they sold their S42 after trying a 1600i.

So, if the 1600i is "good for the money" but some people like it better than an S42, what would be better than the 1600i, for a higher price, while maintaining the same characteristics?


I've owned a lot of horns, and it's only the Jupiter that has sat quite right with me. As for build and playing it's as good as anything I've owned... Or a lot better! For reference... Here's a few I've owned:

6345 yamaha
ML37 Bach
LA CG Benge (1976) - shouldn't have sold this!
Taylor Chicago standard II
Blessing masterpiece (195x)
Selmer concept TT
Olds ambassador, silver sonic
Buescher 244
Conn 17b, 22b (195x), 38B (196x/70), 60B (1975)
Carol 5000 ylt - another real player, but a little spread sounding. Huge power.

I feel live I've missed a few... But you get the idea.

There's only a couple horns that I would consider in its place - van laar chuck findley and the Schagerl Morrison Meister model. Both are way out of my budget!

You can call me a fan of the 1600i XO!!

As for the nodal stabilisers - they open the blow a little and it changes the placement of the slots upstairs. I'm going to remove mine today and do an AB test.

I'm also considering ordering an MK sterling silver tuning slide - which will be a first. I'll report back if I pull the trigger. I need to replace my trusty Zoom H2 and I've settled on the H6, so one or other may have to wait a little while!
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never installed the XONS in mine, mostly out of fear of them getting stuck. Not necessarily right away, but at some point further down the road.

I have often wondered though if the reason they exist is a side-effect of the design, specifically the length of the leadpipe, perhaps? I notice that I need roughly 2x the slide pull on this horn than any other Bb I own. Maybe it's the reversed leadpipe setup? /shrug

I did more experimenting with the first 1600i I had (one that had the well-known lacquer problem). When I got the replacement (no signs of any lacquer wear whatsoever so far btw), I didn't do much at all with the attachments. I pretty much play it stock and haven't felt a need to experiment further so far.

I use the inlaid finger buttons (just what I'm used to with other horns), the D slide, and have no idea which set of springs are installed by default or how I even know the refinished horn came with the default springs installed. I do like the idea of swapping out the rubber water keys with real corks though, although I have no real reason to think the rubber ones are a problem.

My main beefs with the horn that prevent me from using it all the time:

1. The bell flare is very, very tight compared to anything else I have. You essentially need two different sets of mutes. Those for it, and those for everything else because the corks need to be filed differently.

2. It doesn't seem to have the same warmth of sound (at least behind the bell) that I'd really like for some things. I still avoid it for some types of playing for that reason, although nobody else has commented about it vs. another horn without prompting.
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandyTX wrote:
I've never installed the XONS in mine, mostly out of fear of them getting stuck. Not necessarily right away, but at some point further down the road.

I share the same worry and held off for a while because of this. I might try to remove them tonight!

I have often wondered though if the reason they exist is a side-effect of the design, specifically the length of the leadpipe, perhaps? I notice that I need roughly 2x the slide pull on this horn than any other Bb I own. Maybe it's the reversed leadpipe setup? /shrug

Interesting idea. My slide pull is about 2x longer than on any other horn. As soon as I get the psychology of that out of my head I play better.

I did more experimenting with the first 1600i I had (one that had the well-known lacquer problem). When I got the replacement (no signs of any lacquer wear whatsoever so far btw), I didn't do much at all with the attachments. I pretty much play it stock and haven't felt a need to experiment further so far.

I use the inlaid finger buttons (just what I'm used to with other horns), the D slide, and have no idea which set of springs are installed by default or how I even know the refinished horn came with the default springs installed. I do like the idea of swapping out the rubber water keys with real corks though, although I have no real reason to think the rubber ones are a problem.

My main beefs with the horn that prevent me from using it all the time:

1. The bell flare is very, very tight compared to anything else I have. You essentially need two different sets of mutes. Those for it, and those for everything else because the corks need to be filed differently.

2. It doesn't seem to have the same warmth of sound (at least behind the bell) that I'd really like for some things. I still avoid it for some types of playing for that reason, although nobody else has commented about it vs. another horn without prompting.

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lakejw
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

abundrefo wrote:
I've been reading a lot about the 1600i and since this is the most popular topic about it, I'd like to ask a question.

I've been reading everywhere that "this is a very good horn for the money", but also a few testimonies from people who say they sold their S42 after trying a 1600i.

So, if the 1600i is "good for the money" but some people like it better than an S42, what would be better than the 1600i, for a higher price, while maintaining the same characteristics?


I like this horn better than other, more expensive horns. Bear in mind the price has increased (~$600?) since it was launched. For me it's about the combination of specific features, most notably the small step-bore, and a heavier bell with the tight flare. Maybe I would like a Schilke, don't know, can't afford it, don't need it.

bach_again wrote:

You can call me a fan of the 1600i XO!!

As for the nodal stabilisers - they open the blow a little and it changes the placement of the slots upstairs. I'm going to remove mine today and do an AB test.


You got me thinking about these again. When I got the horn brand-new, I immediately put in the larger set of so-called "X-ons" and just played that. Great? Great! Until...after some time off, changing mpcs, etc., I noticed I was getting dangerously low on the pitch. So I had to take them out, to enable me to push my tuning slide in more. Have played without them for almost a year, still loving the horn.

Just today I tried putting the smaller X-ons in, as a result of reading this thread. I noticed a HUGE difference in everything above the staff. It felt closed off, the slots were perilously shallow; it felt like a golf ball had wedged itself in the leadpipe. TERRIBLE. Took them out immediately.

Now all I can think about is the first year I had the horn, and how hard I must have been working for the upper register. Would be interested in hearing your results, Michael.
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abundrefo
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lakejw wrote:
abundrefo wrote:
I've been reading a lot about the 1600i and since this is the most popular topic about it, I'd like to ask a question.

I've been reading everywhere that "this is a very good horn for the money", but also a few testimonies from people who say they sold their S42 after trying a 1600i.

So, if the 1600i is "good for the money" but some people like it better than an S42, what would be better than the 1600i, for a higher price, while maintaining the same characteristics?


I like this horn better than other, more expensive horns. Bear in mind the price has increased (~$600?) since it was launched. For me it's about the combination of specific features, most notably the small step-bore, and a heavier bell with the tight flare. Maybe I would like a Schilke, don't know, can't afford it, don't need it.

bach_again wrote:

You can call me a fan of the 1600i XO!!

As for the nodal stabilisers - they open the blow a little and it changes the placement of the slots upstairs. I'm going to remove mine today and do an AB test.


You got me thinking about these again. When I got the horn brand-new, I immediately put in the larger set of so-called "X-ons" and just played that. Great? Great! Until...after some time off, changing mpcs, etc., I noticed I was getting dangerously low on the pitch. So I had to take them out, to enable me to push my tuning slide in more. Have played without them for almost a year, still loving the horn.

Just today I tried putting the smaller X-ons in, as a result of reading this thread. I noticed a HUGE difference in everything above the staff. It felt closed off, the slots were perilously shallow; it felt like a golf ball had wedged itself in the leadpipe. TERRIBLE. Took them out immediately.

Now all I can think about is the first year I had the horn, and how hard I must have been working for the upper register. Would be interested in hearing your results, Michael.


lakejw, is this the 1600i?

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lakejw
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, with a Schilke 13C4...NO NODES!
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abundrefo
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lakejw wrote:
Yes, with a Schilke 13C4...NO NODES!


You sounded great!
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houdini1313
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One tip I found for getting the XON's out of the horn is NOT using the tool that comes with it. Instead, get a HW brass saver kit and use the valve cleaning brush/tool, stick it in the leadpipe/tuning slide, twist, and pull out. Works quick, doesn't scratch anything, and will save you twenty minutes of feeling like a dentist working on a trumpet.....that wasn't fun!
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lakejw
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it.
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Uberopa
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang, John my Jupiter doesn't sound nearly as good 😊Nice playing. Brian
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I lost the removal tool and don't have anything handy to do the job. I'll sort it soon and comment as and when. I played for a couple hours there. Yeah I really really like this horn! It gets out of your way. I've a couple recording sessions this week. I'm keen to hear how it records with the Reeves 42es /692sL combo. To my ear it sounds very full for a small piece. Though the yamaha shew lead did too, but tuning was quirky with that setup!

John, nice playing man! Great sound... Excellent articulation!
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lakejw
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys!
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bebop
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:59 am    Post subject: Jupiter 1600i inserts Reply with quote

Try using the eraser end of a pencil to get the inserts out. It works great.
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I regret selling my Ingram Jupiter - I was just in that experimental frame of mind I guess and was tweaking my chops for more efficiency at the time. But, now, I am having a custom horn made based on my favorite playing trumpets, one of which being the Ingram. Having Carol Brass make me a .453 bore 5000L-YST with a rimless bell.

Just a note to both Jupiter and Carol players - If you play the Jupiter Ingram, you probably will really like the Carol 5000YST, and if you play the YST, you will probably really dig the Jupiter.

I think it's great to have these two excellent models out there at an affordable price that you can take on any gig and feel confident in the horn. If you want efficiency and power, I highly recommend either of these horns. I'll probably pick up another used Jupiter Ingram at some point down the line. Best, Lex
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638skibum
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:28 am    Post subject: Jupiter Trumpets Reply with quote

I'm a "come-back" player having switched to valve trombone a few years ago due to the large group of retired trumpet players here in Florida where I spend the winters.
I've owned Bachs,Benges, Getzens, Blessings, you name it. Isold my Bach 43 recently through the Horn Stash in Palatine,IL and was looking for another horn in silver. Jim Nolan had an ad in TH for a JUpiter "Roger Ingram" model at a reasonable price so we made a deal.
I use Trent Austin's TA1 mp and it really was made for the Jupiter because this horn speaks like few I've ever played! Great valves, totally focused sound. Best horn I've played in a while and I recommend it highly.
ByThe Way - Pat Dubic, if you read this; I grew up in Salisbury & learned trumpet at Wi-Hi under Mr.Marston.
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