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Roger Ingram Model Jupiter XO Trumpet 1600I


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delano
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes I miss the capt.
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lakejw
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:

3.) Go back to my Schilke 14A4. While generally I've noticed that the pitch is a bit better, I'd wanted to avoid that mouthpiece because of the lack of bite on the inner rim. I went to the Warburton mouthpiece in the first place in an effort to try to bring some better accuracy to my playing with a mouthpiece that had a more defined inner rim.


Might try a GR Bergeron Studio. It's been working for me after switching from a 13A4/A4a. Still a cushioned rim, IMO, but with more bite than the Schilke. The cup is a little deeper (and more bowl-shaped?), which makes it a bit more work to support but the sound is nice and broad.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Franklin. So, do you have anything to add, or an idea I might be able to take away from the question I asked and the post I made?
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trickg
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've been messing with some things this afternoon and I came up with a few thoughts, now that I have tried a combination of different things while watching my pitch with the Snark tuner I picked up today.

1.) My pitch might not have been as bad as I thought. Last night I had a feeling that maybe the sax player was playing a bit on the flat side, (he's a great player, but not used to playing with backing tracks for a constant A=440 pitch center.) so between my being a bit on the sharp side and him being flat, maybe the combination made it seem worse than it was.

2.) This horn doesn't particularly care for the KT backbore in any configuration - it seems to do better from a pitch perspective with a more open backbore.

3.) I didn't really dig the XONS. It didn't seem to help the pitch too much, and it made the horn feel a bit tighter - at least that was my first impression. I had a heck of a time getting the bottom one out. The little XONS remover tool (aka a crochet hook) doesn't do a good job of hooking onto the one in the bottom slide due to the fact that it's so much deeper. I ended up cutting a piece of thin wire coat hanger and bending a hook into it, then filing it down so that it would fit in the slots better.

I ended up with two possible solutions for the pitch issue.

1.) Use the Schilke 14A4. This mouthpiece seems to be a bit better on pitch overall and doesn't ride high in my upper register.

2.) Use the Warburton 4SVW on a #7 backbore. This seems to be about the same as the 14A4 for pitch, and it's the cup I've been using for a bit over a year.

Right now I think I'm going to go with the Warburton setup, and I'll adjust as necessary as the evening progresses. I'll also have the Snark with me to spot check my intonation as the night goes on so that if the sax player tonight (subs all weekend - our regular guy is out) is pitchy, I'll at least know whether or not it's me.
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- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
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houdini1313
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trickg, you may also want to experiment with the gap on the mouthpiece. I am a recent fan of Reeves sleeves (as well as some reeves pieces) Roger's line of mouthpieces comes with a 4.5 equivalent gap, and I use slightly different gaps between a legit mouthpiece and my commercial setup (use the Ingram Studio for lead) Worth checking into for sure.

As far as intonation goes I do pull the slide out more on this horn than any horn I have owned, but I dont mind it. Horn responds great and everything is centered so I dont worry about it. Blame the sax player!
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick post regarding valve alignment? Has anyone aligned, measured or had their horn aligned? I took mine apart tonight and with a tiny dentists mirror and led light saw misalignment and corrected for it using vinyl shims. Here's my findings:

All down strokes are "close enough". Brad Goode recommends that the most valuable alignment is the upstroke and not to worry too much about the down. They looked reasonably good.

Upstrokes:

Valve 1: 0.5mm too high
Valve 2: Spot on
Valve 3: 0.3mm too high

It's too late to test tonight, but I will tomorrow and I'll report back. I was quite surprised by the 1st valve tolerance.

The ports on this horn don't match up perfectly: the valve block and valves have differing sizes on the more oval ports just as an aside. I opened my Conn 60B and the vertical alignment (up and down) is pretty good, but the harder to correct side to side alignment is pretty bad on the 1st valve.

Anyway just some nerdery. Still love this horn. Just looking to make it play at its optimal. Tho ideally that removes ME from the equation hahaha!

Mike
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have put a couple hours on the horn this afternoon, and I am pleased with the results!

The feeling of resistance, response, intonation and resonance have all changed, as I expected.

The horn seems to respond faster with slightly less resistance and I find my resonance/centre of pitch has changed. Some of the more dodgy notes on this horn have really improved (such as G on top of the staff has flattened a bit - hooray! No more playing it 1+2!!!!) 4th line D+Db is a very flat area on this horn and it has brightened up a little. Slots are a little more solid feeling and note to note transitions a little better.

Overall I am going to have to re-adjust to the new pitch tendencies that I now have with this horn, but it feels better.

I have always said how this horn is the most even feeling horn I have ever played - it is now even more true than before!

I'd advise anyone here to consider checking this out, especially if you have some intonation quirks like I have had. It's still a trumpet, so it obviously is never 'perfect', but it is better than it was.

Mike
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crose
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is spot on in the pitch dept. May want to have your checked out.

I tried the rounded tuning slide and it did really crazy things to the pitch - put it away and never looked back

Never had an alignment, but checked them and they are pretty darn close up and down.

My pitch center is a little higher - my slide is pulled quite a bit - and has not changed. Going on 4 years (I believe)

Love mine and use it for everything. Have shocked many players by having them play it blind. Always are impressed with its openness and response.

Best valves I have ever played - and I have owned Getzen and Schilke horns

Enjoy it
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crose wrote:
Mine is spot on in the pitch dept. May want to have your checked out.

As per my post, you should note that when the alignment got fixed, the horn played much better. I see no issues with the soldering and other mechanics, so I think this was the answer. I am considering blueprinting my horn just to double check them and relieve any tension/remove excess solder. Besides, I love this horn!

I tried the rounded tuning slide and it did really crazy things to the pitch - put it away and never looked back

I had similar experiences, tho the worst thing it did for me was on the slots, accuracy and blow. It all felt wrong and too hard to achieve.

Never had an alignment, but checked them and they are pretty darn close up and down.

Up is hard to check without a no. 1 dentists mirror and good lighting, micrometer is useful too. If you are just eyeing 2nd valve, or 3rd down the tube, that's only a part of the story & without the tools described kinda hard to see. If you have used a borescope or light and mirror on each valve in each position I stand corrected.

My pitch center is a little higher - my slide is pulled quite a bit - and has not changed. Going on 4 years (I believe)

My slide is always further out on this horn compared to many other horns.

Love mine and use it for everything. Have shocked many players by having them play it blind. Always are impressed with its openness and response.

Likewise! A lot of people have preconceived notions of this horn, and most or all are shocked when they play it! Medium bore horns don't have much power... 5 seconds later... wow it's so easy to play and sounds huge. Yep!

Best valves I have ever played - and I have owned Getzen and Schilke horns

Likewise on both accounts. My Getzen valves are pretty excellent tho!!

Enjoy it

You too!


Hi Crose, thanks for the reply - my replies in bold.

best,
Mike
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, as you noticed before I had intonation questions about the Jupiter 1600i. I would be rather interested to hear which tuning slide you prefer to play on.

Before I was rather taken with the square slide however I had certain issues with intonation which invariably were down to how I played the instrument. I decided to try an experiment and use the rounded slide after comparing and making notes with a tuner on the squared slide.

I find that I play much better in tune with rounded slide with possibly a better sound. I find the slots are looser which is perhaps why I'm able to play with better tuning as I can bend the notes to pitch easier.

I'm still loving this horn!!

Interested in your experiences!

Mike
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Fredrik
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mike,

I've been playing the 1600i for about 3 years now. For the first 6 months I used the squared slide but found that I prefered the rounded one. It seemed to give me a broader sound and looser slots which I liked.

However after those 2 years I've now been playing with the squared slide again for about 6 months. I agree that the intonation on the squared slide can be a bit more difficult and I think that is because the slots are not as loose as with the rounded one. I found it easier to adjust the pitch with the rounded slide.

When it comes to sound I'm not really sure - I've done recording dates with the different slides and sometimes I feel that the difference isn't that big after all. To me, I think it's more about our feeling as a player...

After all, I think it's personal which set up to use. Right now I'm enjoying the squared slide but maybe it's time to try the rounded one again just as an experiment.

Take care

/Fred
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a used Jupiter 1600i (lacquer) in March 2016 to use in the pit playing musical theater. Works great. Prefer the square tuning slide most of the time.

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jazzman99
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't read all 20 pages if this thread, so if I sound redundant, forgive me.

I got to Jupiter HQ at KHS America in Mount Juliet, Tennessee back in May. My experience was fantastic. They really know how to roll out the red carpets for their guests. Upon arrival, we got asked if we wanted anything to drink, which was very very nice after the ride down there. Then we got a tour of the place. I felt like a kid in a candy shop... Then we were taken to the horn room. They had all sorts of horns, both brass and woodwind out. Their staff are very kind and knowledgeable. I spoke with one gentleman in particular and he knew the specs on just about any horn you could think of.

I played every trumpet/flugel/piccolo they had out. I already have the Bb of my dreams, so I didn't expect to be floored. The Ingram model was the only Bb that I really liked - but that's because I'm already on the horn of my dreams, as I already mentioned. I'm in now way saying Jupiter makes below-par quality horns. They don't. They're fantastic. Now that my disclaimer is out of the way:
The Ingram model had the best feel, sound, and response to me. It was very open, warm, and resonant.

The flugel they had out had a different taper than my flugel, so my mouthpiece wasn't compatible, but I still played it. I liked it, but I can't give a good evaluation of it.

The real reason I went down to try out the horns was because I was searching for a piccolo. They had their 1700 model out, but not the 1700R (R for rose brass). So I tried the 1700. It didn't fit me too well. I sounded rather shrill on it, but that's because of my inexperience on piccolos. I told the rep that I wasn't gonna buy one until I had tried a 1700R, because I wanted to try out both before I spent any money. The rep told me to hold on for a second, as he was gonna go check through inventory to make sure they didn't have one in stock. A minuet later, he was back with one. I tried it and immediately knew that that was the horn. It was sooooooooooooooo much easier on the ears. The others I was with also commented saying how much better that horn suited me. So now it's in my possession.

Afterwards, the rep took us out to lunch at a real nice place and paid for all three of us that joined him. I forgot the name of the restaurant, but I remember that I got the Godfather Sandwich.

I went down with my local music store's roadman, and a band director. The band director, who is also a Jupiter Artist, ended up buying a new horn as well.

That was a super fun and pleasant trip.

Good luck!!
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fredrik wrote:
Hi Mike,

I've been playing the 1600i for about 3 years now. For the first 6 months I used the squared slide but found that I prefered the rounded one. It seemed to give me a broader sound and looser slots which I liked.

However after those 2 years I've now been playing with the squared slide again for about 6 months. I agree that the intonation on the squared slide can be a bit more difficult and I think that is because the slots are not as loose as with the rounded one. I found it easier to adjust the pitch with the rounded slide.

When it comes to sound I'm not really sure - I've done recording dates with the different slides and sometimes I feel that the difference isn't that big after all. To me, I think it's more about our feeling as a player...

After all, I think it's personal which set up to use. Right now I'm enjoying the squared slide but maybe it's time to try the rounded one again just as an experiment.

Take care

/Fred


Excuse the slow reply!

Thanks for that! I agree entirely - I think it feels like a massive change to us, but isn't really. I got pretty sick recently, some viral thing, and was off the horn for a couple weeks. Usually that's no bother, but this time I'm having a real bother getting back in shape. I think I might go back to square 1 IE square slide, ingram mouthpiece, and take it from there. At the time of my post I was playing well and the round slide was really working well for me, but perhaps the squared slide will help me get a bit more focus into my chops. Don't get me wrong - gigs are still fine, but it is more work than I am used to make it work and it feels different. I'm not fussed on how it feels right now!!

Best,
Mike
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstpt wrote:
I bought a used Jupiter 1600i (lacquer) in March 2016 to use in the pit playing musical theater. Works great. Prefer the square tuning slide most of the time. I've come to the conclusion that the rounded slide works for only one thing for me: playing Taps. If I played smokey jazz combo gigs, or if I was a powerhouse lead player, then I'd consider it in those settings; but the rounded slide on my vintage Bach 72* and this Jupiter don't offer enough compression, particularly to cut through the electronic texture of sound on the newer shows, nor to nail high notes securely. So, I do use the rounded slide, but only for Taps and it works in a beautiful way in playing Taps, rounding out the articulation (no spitty attacks...makes them like velvet). Likewise, I'd consider using the rounded slide if I was playing a passage in, say, a church setting where I wanted that sound. I will add that the Jupiter lights up easier than the Bach, but the Bach offers a specialness to the color spectrum in the timbre arena that enjoy, too, and I find the Bach to have a slightly broader sound. Nevertheless, the Jupiter has an ease with response and pitch-centering, and the color palette is nothing to shame. When playing softer, it blends very well with various instruments, and when cranking the coals, it shines.


dspt,

Do you find the slide further in with the rounded slide? I do. I also agree with all your comments. For me when I switched to rounded it cured my intonation quirks, or rather allowed me to bend into tune better. Now that my chops are essentially in rehab I may try the square slide again - afterall it was my preference for 2 years.

Best,
Mike
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jazzman99 wrote:
I haven't read all 20 pages if this thread, so if I sound redundant, forgive me.

I got to Jupiter HQ at KHS America in Mount Juliet, Tennessee back in May. My experience was fantastic. They really know how to roll out the red carpets for their guests. Upon arrival, we got asked if we wanted anything to drink, which was very very nice after the ride down there. Then we got a tour of the place. I felt like a kid in a candy shop... Then we were taken to the horn room. They had all sorts of horns, both brass and woodwind out. Their staff are very kind and knowledgeable. I spoke with one gentleman in particular and he knew the specs on just about any horn you could think of.

Nice one! I would love to experience that!!

I played every trumpet/flugel/piccolo they had out. I already have the Bb of my dreams, so I didn't expect to be floored. The Ingram model was the only Bb that I really liked - but that's because I'm already on the horn of my dreams, as I already mentioned. I'm in now way saying Jupiter makes below-par quality horns. They don't. They're fantastic. Now that my disclaimer is out of the way:
The Ingram model had the best feel, sound, and response to me. It was very open, warm, and resonant.

That's the thing - I tried a B6 this morning and it was much brighter than the Ingram. I was quite surprised! Tho I am yet to find a horn that lights up like the Ingram does. The Bach Commercial L does, but it is a different animal! A one trick pony - IMO.

The flugel they had out had a different taper than my flugel, so my mouthpiece wasn't compatible, but I still played it. I liked it, but I can't give a good evaluation of it.

The real reason I went down to try out the horns was because I was searching for a piccolo. They had their 1700 model out, but not the 1700R (R for rose brass). So I tried the 1700. It didn't fit me too well. I sounded rather shrill on it, but that's because of my inexperience on piccolos. I told the rep that I wasn't gonna buy one until I had tried a 1700R, because I wanted to try out both before I spent any money. The rep told me to hold on for a second, as he was gonna go check through inventory to make sure they didn't have one in stock. A minuet later, he was back with one. I tried it and immediately knew that that was the horn. It was sooooooooooooooo much easier on the ears. The others I was with also commented saying how much better that horn suited me. So now it's in my possession.

Afterwards, the rep took us out to lunch at a real nice place and paid for all three of us that joined him. I forgot the name of the restaurant, but I remember that I got the Godfather Sandwich.

I went down with my local music store's roadman, and a band director. The band director, who is also a Jupiter Artist, ended up buying a new horn as well.

That was a super fun and pleasant trip.

Nice one man! I would love to try one of their piccolos. I have a nice Gezten Eterna 910s tho, and for all I play it, that itself is more than I deserve, but I got a HELL of a deal on it, so yeah... lady luck was good to me there! 2 nights ago when I cut the top 1/8" off my thumb with a cleaver she wasn't so nice!!! f$%*!!

Good luck!!

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jazzman99
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bach_again wrote:
Nice one man! I would love to try one of their piccolos. I have a nice Gezten Eterna 910s tho, and for all I play it, that itself is more than I deserve, but I got a HELL of a deal on it, so yeah... lady luck was good to me there! 2 nights ago when I cut the top 1/8" off my thumb with a cleaver she wasn't so nice!!! f$%*!!

Good luck!!


Ohhh, man, that doesn't sound fun at all! It sends a shudder down my spine to think about it. Care to share the whole story? Hope it heals quickly!!
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trickg
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes it's interesting to go back and revisit some of the things I've posted in older threads.

Looking back at this and considering the last year, not long after I made these posts, I decided to go back to my standard Warburton 4SVW/KT setup and ride it out to see where that would go.

I think that part of the issue I was having was just dealing with the difference in feel and blow of the Jupiter coming off of the Schilke B6 that I'd played for 10 years. Once I finally started to settle into this horn, I really think that it was a great purchase, at least for the wedding party band gig. My accuracy is considerably better, my intonation is solid, and the sound is dense and brassy, which works really well for that kind of playing. However, I don't particularly care for it as a legit trumpet, and for that I'm borrowing my old Strad back from my niece. It's still not the horn I want for legit playing, but it works for now.
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altamira_28
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, over 7 years later, it's still one of my favorite horns. I'm actually using it in a rehearsal tonight. I'm playing mainly on a 1602LTR because they needed a lightweight model artist, and I actually like the horn, but I'm never getting rid of my beautiful 1600i. Still great horns, and I'd recommend them to anyone.

Josh
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a Jupiter XO 1602-LTR that I wouldn't part with for anything. Lightweight, agile, easy blow, does whatever you like.
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